Facebook is telling me that Crab Orchard & Egyptian #6, an EMD SW1, is on its way to the scrapper. Something about the next two weeks.

That's a shame. My understanding is the SW1 is a simple, solid, basic locomotive that is economical to maintain and pulls like a champ.

The unit in photos: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPi ... 506&Page=2

They picked a fine time to do it. With scrap prices this low they may just break even.

The Facebook page this was gleaned from is not affiliated with new Crab Orchard & Egyptian owner Progressive Rail.

This is at least twice now in a week that mis-interpreted or un-official posts from Facebook have caused a ruckus on here.

A contact of mine at COER says that "The Six" has been sold to a scrap company that is located on the railroad. Several locomotive repair and leasing concerns had looked at the locomotive prior to this development and deemed it not worth the expense to load, move and repair. It has numerous issues - plain bearings, non alignment contol couplers, seized traction motor bearings, wiring problems, air problems and some top end prime mover fuel delivery problems.

The scrap company would likely be open to discussIng component recovery once it arrives their yard - if anyone has a wish list of SW-1 parts, send me a PM and I will pass it along.

I know folks get up in arms about stuff like this, but they can't all be or do not need to be saved. The locomotive is PGR's to dispose of in any manner they wish, and that seems to not be understood and respected on this forum.

I have some personal connections with "The Six" - one of the first engines I got to legally run, was put back in service by a late friend of mine, and was named for one of the founding fathers of the COER, Mr. William "Bill" Schreiber. Bill was a neat fellow - an avid lamp collector who lived in former Illinois Central office car #3 - which interestingly enough was parked for many years where The Six currently resides.

While it will be sad to see it get sent off to the switch yard in the sky, it was something else before and shall be something else again. One last thing I was also asked to mention - please don't pester or contact PGR about this engine, as the transaction has been completed for a while now.

Thanks for your consideration of the above.

Locomotives like this one get scrapped because they are not economically viable...

They are too small and light for "modern" railroading's ton cars.

They are old, and with age comes more repairs... Parts for early diesels, even EMD locomotives are harder to find (so even a minor breakdown can take time to fix), and when found can be expensive (by tourist railroad and railroad museum standards). Many have been on low budget operations for many years, and like this one have multiple issues which would need to be addressed.

If it wasn't so far away, and if we had more money I might think about a spare truck for our NW2...

Randy

This is why this is the Railroad Preservation News site. Make a notice like this, the chance of saving the engine for other possibilities, perhaps a museum would be able to take it on, it it has a historical significance then its worth saving. Do we have a roundup of existing SW1's?
Because museums have donation policies a donation can be applicable and beneficiail to the former owner. I'll never say never over the possibilities, but I recall there was a former NKP 2-8-2 at a scrap yard years ago it was discovered (965 if I am right) and it was looked over by some people of the NKPHS, but the engine got scrapped anyways. That was a big loss.

So lets see how this goes.

I did a quick calculation of a ballpark cost to move a small locomotive like this. Lets assume $8,000 to lift it, about $12,000 to $15,000 for trucking/flatcar and another $8,000 to put it back together wherever its going. So you are up to about $30,000 and that does not include acquiring it.

With all of this said, appears that saving this thing is just not economical. The required minimal investment outweighs any conceivable utility...

Dave

That's very typical. There's an ecosystem of people in the commercial leasing business (i.e. to grain elevators, dinner trains, and other profit-driven railways). Some of them are "preservation minded" (read: have a preference for the old stuff) but are still ultimately in that business, and see exclusively the dollar-signs behind that business. To do something contrary to commercial value makes no sense to them.

So when they try to anticipate what a museum would want, they crunch the numbers exactly the same as if a grain elevator would want the thing. Which is wrong.

And that is how they arrive at "if it's not commercially viable to us, it's not of interest to anyone." Put another way, "If I can't save it, no one can."

Because of this logic, no effort is made to market the units into preservation.

This isn't merely missed opportunity; there's a genuine curl of the lip toward preservation.


That's very typical too. Those are all things commercial customers care about. Not museums.

The economics for museums are more different than a commercial man could appreciate. Donors write checks for nostalgia and historic merit, not TCO. Volunteer labor dramatically changes the economics of restoration and maintenance. Not only is this an option for museums, it's mandatory. They don't have the cash flow to hire every bit of work done; if they did, Kyle and RJ Corman would own most of the railway museums.

It's also possible the museum does not care about operating the unit. For instance this applies to every owner of a GG1.


Ahem, like GG1s? Any steam engine? Both Electroliners? How about the Alco FA at Monticello, that could be a GP15-1, much more economically sensible. Hey Metrolink will be retiring their octagon cars, a few of those and some F59PHs could eliminate Rio Vista's Sacramento Northern 1005 and the Bridge units, the Krauss-Maffei and SP heavyweights at Niles Canyon, and the obsolete very expensive to maintain Lackawannas at Campo.

Who's kidding who? Sitting in safe harbor is not the purpose of a ship, and being economically efficient with equipment is not the purpose of a museum.

A museum treats its COLLECTION in a fundamentally different way than a business treats its WORKING ASSETS.

Like I say, a broker has trouble understanding this; he expects dollar signs to work in the normal way.


Yeah. So what? That's what stuff costs these days. Museums don't succeed at their mission by cowering behind the cash register, sheepishly hoarding every last dollar. (Or for that matter wasting it with mad spending on overhead). Preservation isn't free. The museum that isn't investing in their future is stagnating.

And I don't think you appreciate the sheer cubic dollars that exist in this industry. One museum sold a half million dollars worth of tickets, in an hour! (The problem is, most of the museums doing that kind of trade have fallen into the "money chase" trap and waste it all on overhead.)



Also very typical: the "this is how it is, not negotiable" use of language here. Typically the scrapper does not want to deal with preservationists and closes the door - HARD.


While preservation does have its fruit loops, it hardly has a monopoly on being judgmental and closed-minded.

its obvious, business is still business, its the money, when the N&W got new steamers, off the old ones to the scrappers. Its lucky one scrapper held on to some 4-8-0's and got...barely saved..

People as above put on the scare about money, we all know that, but the museums all know that. IRM has their own cranes onsite, they can offload for practically nothing. Find your means right you can reduce costs. But its a differrent purpose than just money when it comes to rail preservation. Why many museums have what they have and are able to do what they have, the SW1 would not be an issue either.

Addressed to the comment before Mr. Dinwitty:

1) Who deemed this thing a MUSEUM PIECE, anyhow ?

2) "If your are going to do..do. Don't talk"

Dave

sometimes, junk is junk. Makes a good parts source for other machines in better condition. If that bothers you, get your check book out and buy it.

A dose of reality: With all the hand-wringing about the supposed need to preserve this engine, I have yet to hear anything about her history that makes her particularly important. What can anybody say about that? Somehow, I rather doubt that there is anything remarkable there, and her best destiny might be to provide a parts source for a more worthy project. If this is shown to be wrong, I'll be happy to reconsider that conclusion.

Tom

I have yet to see any evidence that this particular SW1 is significant enough to warrant all the hand-wringing.

It's not the first one built.

It's not the last one built.

It's not the last one to operate.

It's not the only one left on the planet.

To available knowledge, it was never involved in anything of historical significance (except
perhaps in the minds of a handful of fans).

As to the defects so casually sloughed off above (couplers, bearings, etc.) it most
certainly DOES matter, especially so if you want to move it by any means other than loaded on a truck or a flat car.

Retraction to my original post and comments above:

Turns out "The Six" has not actually been sold or consigned to the scrapper yet - per my contact at the railroad - the scrap company has offered the best price and cleanest way to dispose of it.

I understand that the railroad would entertain the purchase of the unit by an interested party - but there will likely be caveats to the timely removal of it off premises. Another alternative may be working with the scrap yard to "parts out" the unit. There is a site that could likely be used for loading onto flatcar or truck along the route. Again, because of the current condition of the unit, it was worth more in tonnage than as a core locomotive to an operating concern.

My apologies on the misunderstanding and any confusion this may have caused.

#6 was built new in 1953 for Sahara Coal Company and spent all its working life in southern Illinois. While not the last SW-1, it was late built and very spartan as an industrial unit. Trust me, I wish there was a way to keep in the area, but there is little remaining in the way of the coal industry past. There was a National Coal Museum operating former Old Ben #25 mine up the road from Marion at West Frankfort, but it was shuttered in the early 2000's when the shaft mine flooded. They also had the preparation plant that served both #25 and #27 mines - the Six would have made a great display piece there if the museum still existed...

Thanks for your consideration - I have received 1 private message so far regarding interest in parts that may become available.

Good. If someone wants to put their money where their mouth is, now is their chance. How much do you suppose it would take to match the scrapper's offer considering they would probably try to do some parting out?