Re: this from Flimsies. Other than what looks like a negative attitude by RT officials, what are the problems of running a historic trolley in Sacramento? Didn't they do that when the system first opened? And whats with the part about modern LRVs running on AC current? Don't most LRVs run on 750V DC, which can be used on old cars by adding resistors, as in San Jose?

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/traffic/story/6271018p-7224957c.html
ryarger@rypn.org

From the APTA Trolley Preservation pages:

"Trolleys traditionally operate on 600 volts direct current, drawn from an overhead wire (by means of a trolley pole) and returned through the rail (by the wheels). Modern light rail lines typically use somewhat higher voltage (750 or 1000 volts) to power the higher performance and heavier light rail equipment. Thus if a heritage trolley operation plans to use the track of a light rail system, and if  historic cars or replica cars with traditional equipment are to be used, then the cars may have to be modified to operate at this higher voltage. Dedicated heritage trolley lines can simply be built to use 600 volt power."

My reading of that and the BEE story would indicate that the reporter got the "modifying the wires" part of the story wrong. Unless, of course, the transit official *told* him that.



APTA Heritage Trolley Preservation Power Page
dmc@45mm.com

> From the APTA Trolley Preservation pages:

> "Trolleys traditionally operate on 600
> volts direct current, drawn from an overhead
> wire (by means of a trolley pole) and
> returned through the rail (by the wheels).
> Modern light rail lines typically use
> somewhat higher voltage (750 or 1000 volts)
> to power the higher performance and heavier
> light rail equipment. Thus if a heritage
> trolley operation plans to use the track of
> a light rail system, and if  historic cars
> or replica cars with traditional equipment
> are to be used, then the cars may have to be
> modified to operate at this higher voltage.
> Dedicated heritage trolley lines can simply
> be built to use 600 volt power."

> My reading of that and the BEE story would
> indicate that the reporter got the
> "modifying the wires" part of the
> story wrong. Unless, of course, the transit
> official *told* him that.
The modern LRV has AC motors, operated from varying frequency current from the 750 volt DC collected by the pantagraph from the trolley wire. The old cars used trolley poles (as does the one pictured), and this requires wire frogs to be provided at the switches, and runners are added to allow the pantagraphs to pass over them without a problem. Undoubtedly all this has been solved already in Sacramento...

frankr@nptc.com

Several problems can arise with vintage equipment running on modern 750 volt trolley systems.

Typically the substation specifications allow up to 20% above nominal voltage of 750 volts. The substation converts purchased AC power to DC for the trolley wire.Naturally the transit districts like to run substations at maximum voltage to get near 750 volts to the cars at a distance from the substation. This means you can find as much as 900 volts on the trolley wire near a substation. That's a bit much for a controller and equipment that was designed to work in the days of 550 volts on the trolley.

The other problem is that California PUC requires a fireproof floor between the electrical equipment and the passengers. The vintage cars in San Jose solved this problem by installing a steel plate floor under the car.

fkrock@pacbell.net

I spoke to the director of operations at Sac Metro a few months back... The PG&E car they own is operated just in series under the 750 wire. They got this car from San Jose. They also have a 600 V generator-trailer which they can use.

A short segment of streetcar track in "Old Sacramento" was designed for use with a CA State RR Museum horsecar, but I wish that the historic streetcars served this area. Unfortunately, the businesspeople in this area are against having the overhead wires.

This opportunity to have its own, independent system seems like the best way to get a historic trolley operation off the ground. Isn't that sort-of what happend in San Jose?

> This opportunity to have its own,
> independent system seems like the best way
> to get a historic trolley operation off the
> ground. Isn't that sort-of what happend in
> San Jose?

From internal CTRC background literature....

The genesis of the organization now known as the California Trolley and Railroad Corporation (CTRC) was in 1982 at the American Public Transit Association conference in Seattle, WA when then Santa Clara County Supervisor and Transit Board Chair Rod Diridon observed Seattle's historic waterfront trolley's in operation. After 9 years of arduous planning and the approval of a master plan and taxes, the County of Santa Clara had just signed a full funding grant agreement with the U.S. Department of Transportation for construction of the Guadalupe Corridor light rail line. Diridon, the chair of the Guadalupe Project Board, felt a historic component would promote community enthusiasm and give the project a heart.

A meeting was called with community leaders, including the publisher of the newspaper, owner of the cable television systems, presidents of local public utilities, a principle building contractor, and others to discuss the concept. In early 1983, the San Jose Trolley Corporation (SJTC) was incorporated as a 501 ( c ) (3) non-profit California corporation with a Board of Directors that included many prime community leaders. Diridon was elected President of the Board and has continued to serve in that capacity.

A nation-wide executive search for a General Manager / Master Car Builder yielded Fred Bennett of New Jersey, who continues to serve in that capacity. The Associated General Contractors of Santa Clara County, with the assistance of other local construction leaders, created a replica of a historic trolley barn, and later over a mile of electrified trolley track, at the large City of San Jose Kelley Park and Historical Museum grounds. Bays for six historic trolleys were created and machine tools, forklifts, and other equipment and materials including dilapidated historic trolleys were donated by historic trolley devotees from as far away as Milan, Italy and Melbourne, Australia.

The Board of Directors raised in excess of $3 million in cash and at least an equal amount in donated hard assets. A committed group of several hundred volunteers have provided the technical skills and staffing under Mr. Bennett's management. The result is that the SJTC has reconstructed nine historic trolley cars, one of which is a horse drawn trolley from the 1870's, with all of the others being turn-of-the-century vintage electrically powered traction trolleys.

Five of these beautifully restored historical monuments are leased for one dollar per year to the Santa Clara County Transit Agency and operate on the downtown San Jose Transit Mall Loop of the Guadalupe Corridor Line. The remaining trolleys are retained at the San Jose Historical Museum Trolley barn and operated as a shuttle for museum patrons.



kamiddle@rockwellcollins.com

> Several problems can arise with vintage
> equipment running on modern 750 volt trolley
> systems.

> Typically the substation specifications
> allow up to 20% above nominal voltage of 750
> volts. The substation converts purchased AC
> power to DC for the trolley wire.Naturally
> the transit districts like to run
> substations at maximum voltage to get near
> 750 volts to the cars at a distance from the
> substation. This means you can find as much
> as 900 volts on the trolley wire near a
> substation. That's a bit much for a
> controller and equipment that was designed
> to work in the days of 550 volts on the
> trolley.

> The other problem is that California PUC
> requires a fireproof floor between the
> electrical equipment and the passengers. The
> vintage cars in San Jose solved this problem
> by installing a steel plate floor under the
> car.

I am not aware that the CPUC requires a fireproof floor. Clearly many of the trolleys operating regularly in San Francisco would not meet this requirement.

Operation of historical streetcars in an urban transit environment in California is governed by part 8 of General Order 143 (see link). Part 8 sets aside many of the requirements which new LRVs must meet, and replaces them with a more basic set of criteria (eg: stopping distance performance criteria, safety glass, visibility of headlights and tail lights, etc), as well as a requirement for specific operating rules.

As a matter of good practice, historical streetcar operators would naturally maintain heat barriers above resistor grids, just as many of the streetcars originally had. However, no elaborate replacement of the original floor is mandated.

CPUC General Order 143
jsmatlak@earthlink.net

One of the problems incountered running historic trolly pole equipped cars on the same line as pantagraph equiped LRVs is the difference in the overhead wires.

A couple of years ago the Western Railway Museum had and excursion in P,G & E 35 now owened by Sacramento; but restored by Fred Bennett in San Jose. I spent a lot of time on that car and it does not have a steel floor.

We were told because of the trolley pole as mentioned above, it could only be operated in certin areas of the downtown loop of the Light Rail System.

By the way, they are working on two major expansions of the rail system and a smaller branch line to serve the Amtrak station in Sacramento.

ted_miles@nps.gov