It's probably premature to engage in too much speculation. If the collection is reduced or broken up, one would hope that the NKP GP7, 2-8-2, and business car 1 would remain in native NKP territory, and W&LE business car no. 3 ought to return to Ohio. The collections at Fort Wayne, North Judson, Bellevue, or Sugarcreek might benefit from the addition of some of the PRR, NKP, NYC and WAB freight and passenger cars. The group in Clewiston, FL might like to have FEC business car 90.

If IRM can survive intact, so much the better.

Tom

Well, there are some photos at http://newdavesrailpix.com/hicks/hicks_sub_old_museum_indianatransportation.htm but they're all about 15 years old.

For what it's worth, there are other historic pieces in the collection. The E&OV GE steeplecab is one of relatively few steeplecabs built commercially for a true interurban line (steeplecabs built for industrial operations generally fared better in preservation). The Indianapolis "Master Unit" and the I&C interurban car - the latter a sister to several sold to the "TM" and rebuilt into Duplexes - are also fairly significant. And the North Shore car, though generally similar to others of that era, is the only one of its particular class extant. But unfortunately all of these are in poor condition.

Frank -

You mentioned a North Shore car at ITM, but I didn't see it in the "DavesRailPix" group of ITM photos. I seem to recall that this particular car was privately owned, but maybe I have that wrong.


Les

North Shore 172 was put into the barn around 1998, give or take, assuming the indoor storage spot formerly occupied by CA&E 308 which had been sold to IRM. Thus it is in a difficult-to-photograph and normally off-limits location. There are a couple of photos taken of 172 in operation c1989 at http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=95171 but its condition is worse now. I have heard conflicting reports about its ownership; at one time it was privately owned but I'm not sure what the situation is currently.

Some of their other stock pictured in June 2012, in case it is of interest....

What has not been mentioned, is the last year ITM ran, it had its biggest year in its history in terms of ridership and planned on expanding its excursion program considerably. Also, a recent public pole shows STRONG support for keeping the railroad. Also do not be fooled by reports of unsafe tracks, as they are not. ITM operated the line at the FRA approved speed of 25 MPH with no problems or issues. In fact a large amount of money was spent on the portion the Fairtrain runs on just 3 years ago, "to insure the safe and efficient operation of the Fairtrain for many years to come" and in fact are in the best shape they have been in years!! Separately, I have lots of cell phone pics I would like to post but it keeps sayin the file is to big..Any ideas? I have never had this issue with any other site...

The software limits the size of attachments and is part of the issues with this current forum format that should be addressed if the long proposed "reboot" ever happens. Until then, you will have to resize your photos down to what the forum finds acceptable. There are free websites that will do that for you such as http://www.resizeyourimage.com

From the renderings in the online article it appears that there is ample space for a rail with trail. Obviously that may not be the case on the entire corridor, but that is what the railroad should be pushing for.

AFAIK, the entire museum is sitting in a Noblesville City Park. I don't know if there is a lease or what the arrangement is, but ITM does not own the land. In recent years there have been requests or pressure from the City to clean up the property and paint the equipment, etc. If that is correct, that is a completely separate issue from the port authority, trail proposal and the proposed abandonment of the NKP route. Can anybody confirm that?

Yes, they are still leasing the property in Forest Park. They have cleaned up the "yards" and surrounding areas and incredibly, are on good terms so that is not an issue at this point. A county commission meeting was held last night and my sources indicate the commission is not on board with trail conversion at this point as SR 37 thru the county is scheduled to be upgraded and resources will be focused on that so lets take a step back here as there may be hope yet...

Will you at least concede that if the trail doesn't happen, that does not necessarily mean that operations will resume?

What is ITM's plan for restoring faith in the owners of the railroad that it is a responsible entity to operate on the line, even if its just the remainder north of the current "museum site"?

What I find interesting about ITM's latest PR stunt is that it ignores the fact that they haven't been allowed to operate on the line for about a year now, period. They provide no information to the public that they have a plan in place to gain that access again if the trail doesn't happen, or if it becomes a rail/trail. I just don't know why ITM is asking the public to rally to its cause when it isn't transparent or forthright in its plans.

I can certainly see an option where the trail doesn't happen, and ITM isn't allowed to operate on the line anymore, where it is "rail banked"

Here is at least one more item that is not duplicated in another museum:

Orton 15 tons Diesel 1961
Purdue University #4 Purdue, IN
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1400230

Does anyone know anything about this crane in their collection?

unknown 25 tons Diesel 1950
Alcoa #4

John -

Not true. We have the "sister" crane from Purdue (Orton s/n 44596). She was built in 1945 and gasoline engine powered. When Purdue got the second crane from Orton, the University "coal crews" liked its Detroit Diesel and Purdue put a Detroit in our crane. Incidentally, we show our Orton as being 20-tons, not 15. Also, you show this later crane as being P.U. number 4. We have never been able to find any reference to our crane carrying a number and if you have such info, we would be interested in knowing it. Incidentally, our crane has really been an asset to HVRM since Purdue donated it to us back in 1992 as can be seen in the photo taken in October of 2014. I've also attached a photo taken a few weeks earlier during its repaint.

Les

Les,

As you say your Orton is 20 tons and the ITM crane is 15 tons. There are no other examples of eithor model preserved. Orton has always been hard to research. When I contacted them several years ago I was told that their records are privet and to not contact them again. I think they are out of busyness now.

John:
I stopped at Orton years ago and asked if they had a photo file. They told me to write a letter to their Chicago office which I knew was a waste of time ! There were two cranes sitting behind a fence there and I asked if I could take some photographs; the answer was NO ! Never wasted my time again.
I do have a bundle of newspaper articles about they company , no records.

Kevin K.