I absolutely canÂ’t believe what IÂ’m reading here. I really have to ask a question: are you serious? IÂ’d get a lot more blunt, but IÂ’m pretty sure if I conveyed my current emotions in the language IÂ’d like to in response to the tone of this thread-it would invite moderator action. Suffice it to say, there is an appalling lack of common sense business insight inherent in this thread.

Month after month, we sit in front of our screens writing, reading and responding to innumerable gripes on Interchange about a lack of money, lack of volunteers, how will we engage the next generation and THEN we get this thread that implicitly treats visitors as an annoyance to be disposed of until a more “convenient” time.

Let me get to the point. One major organization-that I can’t remember the name when I’m this PO’d- regards ANY contact with the public as “moment of truth”. That first contact sets an almost indelible mark in that person’s mind about you and your organization. To them you ARE THE ORGANIZATION-indeed in such a closed industry as this-you represent ALL OF US. They either feel welcome, warm and fuzzy or walk away rejected. You usually get one shot to make a lasting first impression, that’s it.

Nobody on this board (that I know of) is so big or organized as to have a “customer service” 800 line. We don’t advertise. We get our customers by word of mouth or by happenstance. If you are dressed in traditional attire or on/ about equipment and public view- you are now a “customer service representative”

If somebody takes the time out of their day to “bother” us – WE OWE THEM a polite, warm and INVITING response, unless they are endangering somebody or something. If you don’t have an hour to BS, you can’t afford NOT to take 5 or 10 minutes to be friendly and give them a little info-pointing out you’d be hard pressed to give them the full experience until they ride the train. The first rule of customer service is never to say “NO”, ALWAYS offer an alternative. If you wish to minimize contact-work inside, under cover or off hours.

You have no idea who you are dealing with-could be a relative of some legislator, some guy with four kids interested in trains who’d buy 6 tickets next week, a couple considering a charitable bequest, the pimple-faced kid that’ll be your fireman when you are 65 and shorter of breath OR: the local gossip who’ll tell everybody he/she knows about the “jerks with the old trains on Route 55”.

Let me illustrate. Having recently moved, I had to find some new eateries. I happened upon a Boston Market off Exit 72 on Rt 81 North of Harrisburg one night. I was running late, It was 9:55; they close at 10. There was still some activity, so I walked in. I asked if I could I get something or was it to late. I expected to be offered take out only. They told me to “please be careful near the tables-the floors are wet”. When my chicken was ready-the girl said with a smile-“take your time”. When I finished at 10:20, they still thanked me for coming in. I’ve been back at least 10 times in the 2 months and I make an effort NOT to inconvenience them.

There was another place I went that closes at 10:00, went in at 9:30, and the guy looked at his watch before giving me a table. HavenÂ’t been back since.

You know about the Boston Market-you donÂ’t know about the other place. Is this clear enough? If its not, please pursue another hobby and stop giving the rest of us a bad name.


Superheater@rrmail.com

The
> first rule of customer service is never to
> say “NO”, ALWAYS offer an alternative. If
> you wish to minimize contact-work inside,
> under cover or off hours.

Amen!

Many have been the times that I have been
asked a question while working on a project at my favorite museum, and ended up giving the cooks tour. Although it doubled the time needed to letter a passenger car (or any other task), the personal satisfaction that you have been looked upon as an "expert" is an excellent payback.

YOU are the museum in the visitor's eyes. Its your effort and expertise and knowledge that makes it come alive, even if there is no smoke coming from the stack of the steam locomtive. The Customer is King. Treat him/her/them in that manner and watch what can happen!

breher1257@aol.com

> The

> Amen!

> Many have been the times that I have been
> asked a question while working on a project
> at my favorite museum, and ended up giving
> the cooks tour. Although it doubled the time
> needed to letter a passenger car (or any
> other task), the personal satisfaction that
> you have been looked upon as an
> "expert" is an excellent payback.

> YOU are the museum in the visitor's eyes.
> Its your effort and expertise and knowledge
> that makes it come alive, even if there is
> no smoke coming from the stack of the steam
> locomtive. The Customer is King. Treat
> him/her/them in that manner and watch what
> can happen!

I was present at IRM's annual member's dinner last year and seem to remember one of their board members relating a story about a similiar sitution. In this case a member took the time to stop what he was doing and show the visitor around the property. The graciousness and politeness of the member so impressed the visitor that a sizeable donation was diverted by this individual from some other worthy cause to the coffers at IRM. The point was driven home very clearly that evening that you never know who you are impressing/pissing-off and that EVERYONE in the organization stands to color the public's opinion and perception of the group. Like the old passenger conductor once said, "Working these trains wouldn't be bad except for dealing with the public!" But who pays the bills? Anyone from IRM care to refresh my memory or make additions?
Don C.

milw261@sbcglobal.net

It gets stupider:

We had a busload of state legislators show up 2 hours late for a superquick tour. Prominent among them was a representative who chaired the Governor's Special Appropriations Committee.

As I was personally guiding him through the shop area, showing him the projects under way which his committee had funded part of, a cranky member of our board of directors came in and chased him out because the shop area is off limits to the general public!

How many projects died before they were born after that..........

Dave

Sorry about that - 1st time poster - the name refers to my interest in Oldsmobiles and Atlantics.

I believe the organization that you speak about is SAS led by Jan Carlzon - he's one of my business models and leadership heroes. Every customer (yes that's what a visitor/guest is) touchpoint interaction is a "Moment Of Truth" that - in my experience - some museums pull off beautifully (CSRM comes to mind). Others, well you just get the feeling that you are just a temporary diversion to be put up with until they can get back to playing with their trains.

Last year, I was going to be close to a major museum in the Midwest(think arches)on business.I called ahead to see if I could arrange a guided tour of the museum for myself and a major business relationship who has a slight interst in trains. I knew if I tried to conduct a tour it would wind up being way too overly technical and long for my guest so I wanted it done by a museum staffer/volunteer who would know the proper way to explain it to the typical visitor. I was told that they were getting ready for some kind of model railroaders convention and were way too busy to do a tour for me. I said that I'd be willing to pay a premium - 150.00 for just the two of us and we didn't want to take up any more than 1 hr. of their time. They still said no and to NOT CALL BACK ANY MORE. (this was just the first call). Is it any wonder that some organizations continue to thrive and grow while some become modern day "fallen flags"?

jmunoz@enginetech.com

Last Sunday I was leaving the Shop and one of the operating staff stopped me and asked me if I could show an Australian couple a steam engine that was out of sight behind closed doors.

knowing that australia is a long long way from here I took them in and followed that loco along with a tour and discription of several other cars that I thought they would find interestine, i.e. an Australian car.

They were fun to chat with and no they did not put a $100 bill in the fare box. But they left feeling good about an American railway Museum. I hope that the narrow gauge tourist railroad that is next on their list treats them as well!

I am an historian so I am full of facts and figures on the equipment that is on the grounds and in the display barns of the Western Railway Museum. and many others for that matter.

I think everyone who works at a museum should be able to give a few basic facts on the why and how of that "train" over there. Not just your Docents or Train Crews make history come alive!

And while I am at don't be afraid to say "I don't know". And add a way to someone who does!


ted_miles@nps.gov

> I absolutely canÂ’t believe what IÂ’m reading
> here. I really have to ask a question: are
> you serious? IÂ’d get a lot more blunt, but
> IÂ’m pretty sure if I conveyed my current
> emotions in the language IÂ’d like to in
> response to the tone of this thread-it would
> invite moderator action. Suffice it to say,
> there is an appalling lack of common sense
> business insight inherent in this thread.

I should have known when I started this thread that my question would be misinterpereted. So many people seem to be ready to jump all over someone without taking time to understand what they're really saying. It seems as if y'all have delighted in criticizing a perceived "anti-public" attitude without really grasping what I was getting at. In my original post I said that "I hate to be ugly to these people." That was meant to mean that I don't want to generate negative word of mouth by sending people away. Either a lot of people missed that comment or they ignored it.

I never intended to suggest that ALL visitors outside of regular operating hours should be brushed off rudely. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I'm very customer oriented and will often give people tours. I rather like giving tours, in fact -- as long as the group I'm guiding follows instructions and doesn't let their kids run wild.

What I was posting about was not the hopeful fan who drops by, trying to catch someone at the Museum. The people I meant are the ones who drive right past the closed sign, get out, and proceed to run rampant all over the place. The kids climb all over everything, adults ignore obvious barriers meant to keep them out of certain locations, and some have even forced open doors to get into stuff that's obviously not supposed to be available to them. They regard the Museum as a free playground. These folks NEVER reward a harried volunteer like myself for his or her time by making a donation -- unless they leave a dirty diaper in the middle of the parking lot. They MIGHT tell a friend about the Museum, but probably won't. To these folks, it's dissapointing that someone is actually at the Museum because they were hoping to be able to wander all over the place at will, completely unsupervised.

You'll say these people are exceptions. Not at our place they aren't! No, they're not 100% of the after-hours drop-ins. But they're a good half. Maybe it's our location, but we seem to get an inordinate number of inconsiderate rednecks with no sense of personal responsibility. It's one thing dealing with public like this when we're open and have volunteers on the site to yell at them when they get out of hand. When I'm there alone, though, these people are a real nusiance. If they get hurt, they're probably going to be the first people to sue. And if they're that ballsy when someone is there, what are they doing when the site is completely deserted?

Please don't tell me about the benefits of being nice to people. I know all that, and it's not at all what I was asking about. I'm looking for ways to deal with people who, simply put, don't want to behave. WITHOUT generating negative word of mouth from them.

The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@compuzone.net

> I should have known when I started this
> thread that my question would be
> misinterpereted. So many people seem to be
> ready to jump all over someone without
> taking time to understand what they're
> really saying.

Matt there's no lack of understanding nor were your comments subject to any misunderstanding. I rather think you conveyed a certain attitude of frustration we all share. I think the fact that other posters added incidents proves you were crystal clear.

Nobody escapes the occasional trap of wishing that the great unwashed would just let me (us) do my (our) work.

EVERYBODY is customer focused when its convenient or scheduled. Ever notice how you feel when you call an 800 number and every option wants to steer you from talking to a human being? You just want a simple question answered and you are being told "due to extremely heavy call volume all of our representatives are are assisting other cutomers" (no matter what time of day when you call)after you've waded through seven menus to FINALLY find the human being option. If you're lucky-you might even get an english-speaking person.

EVERY CUSTOMER wants it faster better cheaper and WHEN THEY WANT IT. No kidding 100% of your customers are always interfering-your job is to help or GENTLY redirect.

The public doesn't know (or care) that you are welding a brace, doing a brake test or just hot and sweaty because you just closed a couple hundred windows on a 90 degree day and that damn bag is rubbing your shoulder raw. They just want to know when the Three o'clock train leaves, can I bring food? Can I get a ride in the cab? Where's the key? How do you start this thing? Is that the brake? or a hundred other questions that are a pain because you've answered them 100 times or because you know that they aren't going to like the answer.

If you don't let them feel that your attending to their question-they'll be angry, dissappointed or both and walk away. Treat them like gold-and I realize its an art that I certainly could be better at-they'll be back, riding trains, buying merchandise, bringing friends perhaps.

The simple reality is that those industries and organizations that don't understand every meeting or "moment of truth" with the public is an opportunity to make a customer-eventually suffer.

In this advocation-there will be times that you can't help because of how dangerous moving or fixing a train is-but there's a lot more times when you'll FEEL like the task of the moment is so important that you can blow off that question.

Finally, this is nothing personal-I'm sure you aren't the posterboy for bad service-but you stuck your head out of the foxhole into the crosshairs of my pet peeve.



Superheater@rrmail.com

> doesn't let their kids run
> wild. adults ignore obvious barriers meant to keep
> them out of certain locations, and some have
> even forced open doors to get into stuff
> that's obviously not supposed to be
> available to them.

I think I left a big chunk of your post unaddressed. Moreover I don't want to be or sound pollyannish about the topic.

As for the delinquents-this is unfortunately the reality of our time. Maybe every generation thinks the following ones are completely out of control-or maybe "time out" has spared the rod and spoiled the child-but I see kids doing exactly what you describe in every public place.

I volunteer at a museum where I observed a 30ish man jump from the cab deck of a switcher (5 feet) to a concrete floor. How he didn't rip an ACL is beyond me. I told him "please don't do that"-when he shot back "i knew I could do it", I took a different tone-"good for you-and good thing I saw your son (about 4)he thought he could too". At a certain point-you need to exercise control-good customer service occasionally involves protecting people from themselves. Being accomodating and being a doormat are different.

Parents regularly attempt to walk up wet coach steps with a coke in one hand and junior dangling from the other-feet dragging up steps-somehow handrails elude them. Usually saying "folks, wet cinders are like grease" will work.

As for the dirty diaper, one custodian I knew came out of a bathroom shaking his head saying "how do you sh** on the wall, is that physically possible"? Disgusting as it is, people do things like that. Some are inconsiderate, some are ill.

Sometimes you get surpprised. One particularly hot afternoon I observed a boy about 11 screaming every obscenity in the book including the "f-bomb" and told him to "can it"-turns out he had some autism like disorder. I could only feel unbelievably bad for the father-knowing this wasn't a two year old's tantrum that would go away-it would be a daily occurrence forever.

Moreover some folks in that poor soul's position redirect their anger to lawyers-because YOU KNOW some judge is going to think that making the senior ladies bridge club turn red from the language is a "reasonable accomodation" under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

There's no pat answer. Sometimes the proper way is the easy way and they comply. In some cases-you need to raise your voice and still others need the local police. You have to get experience, think on your feet and be ready for surprises.

I'M NOT SUGGESTING you tolerate the destructive, disruptive or tresspasser. But keep in mind a certain percentage of people are acting on impulse-without "malice aforethought" and totally without regard for consequence.

Finally, dealing with the "public" is a very taxing endeavor. Such occupations have high burnout and turnover for a reason. The reality is everybody needs a break once in a while. You can only screw on a smile so often.

ANY BUSINESS that deals with people deals with that percentage that are jerks. You have to accept it.



Superheater@rrmail.com

How we deal with these things when the public has gone home and we are alone shutting the joint down for the night is another story - one of the healthiest things I have seen about it was a young conductor's approach we had out in Colorado.

Every day he would write down the stupidest things he had heard from passengers all day. At the end of the season he edited and compiled a long list which had us all roaring.

Our engine crews had a metal spatula hanging from the cab. When asked about its purpose, they would answer that we used it to scrape the hands of fathers who tried to prove to their sons that the steam locomotive wasn't a real steam locomotive, just a diesel in a fake body off the hot boiler.

It is frustrating and does make you wonder about the decline of basic intelligence in the general population, but then if they were smarter we wouldn't need to try so hard to keep them safey entertained.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> What I was posting about was not the hopeful
> fan who drops by, trying to catch someone at
> the Museum. The people I meant are the ones
> who drive right past the closed sign, get
> out, and proceed to run rampant all over the
> place. The kids climb all over everything,
> adults ignore obvious barriers meant to keep
> them out of certain locations, and some have
> even forced open doors to get into stuff
> that's obviously not supposed to be
> available to them. They regard the Museum as
> a free playground.

Forget all of the customer service, win 'em over at all costs stuff from other posts. It sounds like you have a security problem. Is your property gated? Fenced?


National Capital Trolley Museum

> Forget all of the customer service, win 'em
> over at all costs stuff from other posts. It
> sounds like you have a security problem. Is
> your property gated? Fenced?

Sort of and no. There is a gate of sorts. Trouble with that is that it only stops the car, because it's just a chain across the driveway. We built a simple zig-zag fence from crossties to define the property line and create at least a psychological barrier. That's more to keep the public off the adjacent highway during open days than to keep people out, though.

Fortunately we've had very little trouble with vandalism. We have had some crossties dissapear, but stacking some sticks of rail on top of the tie piles ended that. About the worst that's happened was some delinquents getting into the coaches and spraying the fire extinguishers all over, and a horn set getting swiped. Two incidents in about 20 years at the same site is pretty good.

A true security fence is something we probably need, but given the relatively low incidence of crime it's tough to justify the expense right now.

The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@compuzone.net

Matt

Ive been reading this thread for a while and more than anything else I'm tempted to say that people have tired to understand human nature for centuries.
I can't claim to have a foolproof technique here, but I have found that when I'm in full mechanical glory ( greasy, hot, sweating like a pig, cursing the metal gods ) and interrupted by a visitor, I steer the interaction around and goodnaturedly offer to let them help me out. 99% of the time it is effective at shortening the discussion...and that 1% of the time it might net the organization a new volunteer. For some reason, the more sincere I am about letting them help, the faster the folks disappear. Magic.
And although sometimes hard to keep it light, you cant beat humor to get messages across to parents :

" Excuse me sir, but your son is about to kill himself in front of all these other families, all of whom will surely sue the railroad for subjecting their kids to such a spectacle."
" Parents who do not behave will be made to sit with their children."
" Research has shown that obeying the instructions of the train crew can dramtically increase wealth and your attractiveness to the opposite sex."
etc.

Opening your gift shop when it is "closed" so someones grand-kid can get a wooden whistle is the kind of thing that people remember. I also remind myself that potential donors and benefactors are indistinguishable from other visitors that pass by. They might just leave a loaded pampers in your lot, or be the swing vote on your next grant.

Bill

>I'm
> looking for ways to deal with people who,
> simply put, don't want to behave. WITHOUT
> generating negative word of mouth from them.


staybolt@bellsouth.net