80 feet? 85 feet? Makes no difference if you’re inventive, like the PRR was in Columbus, Ohio when they borrowed some Santa Fe steamers back in 1956.

http://godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=512

http://godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=515

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.

That was a pretty "out of the box" thinking on this extension idea. What was really not "out of the box" was how did the Pennsylvania allow themselves to scrap their steam locomotives in such numbers in 52 & 53 that they found themselves so short. They also purchased just about every form of diesel built. Not quite "The Standard Railroad". It was good that the SanteFe locomotives had another chance to run.

Steve

Hi,



When the PRR had 598 identical (same plans) 2-10-0s on the roster, they did have some validity at proclaiming themselves "The Standard Railroad". I do not understand the history of the PRR well. Given that, PRR used to promote to the presidency from within their own ranks. Usually from the engineering staff.

Sometime in the 1950s, they brought in some presidents that were not from the PRR family. I never read all of the book "Wreck of the Penn Central" but it is my understanding that the non-railroad presidents evidently decided to start skimming off the top The presidents also did not correctly understand the advantages of diesel production lines and the need to purchase from only one or two manufacturers.

My best understanding (at best so-so) is that the by the middle 1960's the PRR was broke and headed for bankruptcy. The move to merge with NYC was a last desperate measure to keep PRR afloat. It failed.

In the late 1960,s an airline named Pan-Am sold tickets for civilian travel to the moon. The airline went through some bad leadership and I think it was in the 1990s that it bellied up. The trade name was purchased by Guilford Railroad. So a name that was known for pioneering many Trans-Atlantic and Trans-Pacific routes using Sikorsky flying boats ended up on railroad equipment.

So blanket statements like They also purchased just about every form of diesel built. Not quite "The Standard Railroad". is correct for only a certain period of time during a corporate life of some 140 years.

FWIW

Doug vV

The PRR had only one president after 1900 who was not from within the PRR organization, Stewart T. Saunders (the PRR's last president, and the first chairman of Penn Central). STS was president of the N&W, which was, at the time, a PRR subsidiary of sorts.

STS was the driving force behind the PRR-NYC merger, and also lead the N&W's dieselization program from 1955 on.

As for "skimming off the top", Saunders was not really involved with the financial skullduggery; that was David Bevan, PRR VP-Finance. Bevan usually kept Saunders in the dark about the financial house of cards that PRR (and PC) became.

Howard P.

As far as the rapid retirement of steam in the 1950's by the PRR, one of the reasons for that was several of the major cities that they served had implemented air quality standards. They would have been fined heavily, on a daily basis if they failed to comply. So they bought diesel power from whoever could get it to them as fast as possible. They continued to use steam where it was feasible until they had acquired enough replacement power on roster.

I understand PRR still had lots of J1's on the property when the Santa Fe engines were leased, but it would have required a lot of expensive and time consuming work to make enough of them serviceable. The Santa Fe engines were available and in good shape.

There may have been other factors.

Tom

Hi,

I stand corrected. Thanks.

I had 12 men and one woman work for PRR from about 1920 to the end and the last retired from the successors in the 1980s.

The decline of the PRR I've never fully understood but I understand better now. The PRR was the Microsoft of the turn of the 20th Century (say 1860-1930).

The PRR had many experimental locos and used them but when they found a good design, they were sort of like Henry Ford, build many from the same plans. That is another definition of the word standard.

Doug vV

We've wandered far off the original topic, but for accuracy of the record:

In 1959, the PRR created a formal board chairmanship. Then-president James M. Symes was elevated to Chairman, and Allen J. Greenough, a Civil Engineer and VP of Transportation and Maintenance at the time, was elected the 14th (and last) president of the PRR. It was not until Symes retired in 1963 that Stuart Saunders, an attorney, was brought in from N&W to be Chairman of the PRR board and CEO. By that time, the Penn Central merger application had already been filed with the Interstate Commerce Commission (on March 9, 1962) and the merger agreement, negotiated by Symes and Al Perlman of the NYC in 1961, had already been approved by both boards.