Does anyone have suggestions or information about dismantling Andrews freight car trucks? Is there any archival information out there that I'm missing? I've found lots of material relevant to model railroads, but nothing much about the real thing. Thanks in advance.

What are you trying to do? The basic steps seem obvious, take the springs out, and then the bolster should be able to come out. It may needed turned a bit sideways, not sure, think it might just drop down and out though. The journals straps are bolted on, so those get unbolted, then the journals should come out.

Other than that, there's not much more disassembly you can do, is there?

What is it that you're trying to do that you're running into a problem with?

I haven't dismantled Andrews trucks but I did assemble a pair of them last summer. As noted above, there isn't much to it. Jack up the bolster, take out the springs. Lower the bolster. Remove the bearings and wedges. Pick up one sideframe and slide it out away from the wheelsets. Do the same on the other side.

Hi,

The D&RGW (now C&TS) has two kinds of Andrews trucks - the 3-piece and the 1-piece. I assume you are talking about the one piece. The 3-piece has the journals bolted on the side frame.

one piece Andrews:



three piece Andrews:





If you want more photos, PM me and I'll email them to you.

I posted all my photos on the NGDF around Christmas 2016.

Doug vV

Doug vV -

Thanks for posting the photos. Someone once advised our museum that the 3 piece Andrews trucks were no longer allowed on common carrier trackage. We have a couple of cars that have those 3 piece Andrews. Can anyone confirm that they are indeed banned? Thanks...and sorry if this is not exactly in line with the original thought of this thread.

Les

I don't know of any ban specific to the Andrews 3 piece design, but plain (or 'friction') bearings have been banned from interchange service for well over 20-25 years now, as have the subsequent roller bearing conversions (AP bearings within permanently opened plain boxes). So Andrews trucks would not be permitted unless there were some oddball heavy versions made with enclosed roller bearings (I don't recall any like that).

The ban is an AAR imposed ban, not FRA, and while they normally don't, RRs can voluntarily accept plain bearings, typically only in special service such as a hospital or special (read expensive) move like a limited one-time museum move, etc. Some RRs have more strict rules (like CSX - won't normally accept even the enclosed roller types any longer). A good relationship with an accepting host RR is generally the only way to get a move with old stuff. As others have said, your mileage may vary.

Doug,

What you refer to as a one piece Andrews truck is a Bettendorf truck. The Andrews was designed so a railroad could use the journal boxes from their archbar trucks to reduce the cost of converting to cast side frames.

Close. Whereas Andrews was the nearly-universal name of the three-piece, cast truck design with bolted-on journals as shown in the second D&RGW photograph, the Bettendorf Company was only one of several prolific makers of one-piece, cast-sideframe, U-section frame member trucks. Because their name so often shows up prominently in the castings, railfans and model railroad manufacturers at some point adopted the name Bettendorf to apply to any truck of the same basic type. However, The Bettendorf Company also made trucks with T-section frame members, and lots of other companies also made nearly-identical, one-piece, cast-sideframe, U-section frame member trucks.

Most of the latter complied more or less with an ARA/AAR patented standard for one-piece, U-section cast truck frame design, and so at the urging of several noted scholars of freight car design, railfandom (and the museum world) has gradually been adopting minor variants of the name "ARA cast sideframe" or later the "AAR cast sideframe" (after a 1934 merger of the ARA with other railroad trade organizations), to describe any truck which complies with the same overall configuration, even where minor detail and contour variants occur.

I don't know if this is what the railroads called them, too, but it does tend to be a bit more accurate.

And--to more directly address the original topic--while I don't know enough about the practice to know if there is any reason for this not to be a good idea, or whether it offers any advantages, I have seen Andrews sideframes either jacked or lifted by other means, the journals unbolted, and the wheel and axle sets rolled out of the ends of the frames, still on the rails, with the journals still fitted to the axle ends.

Hi,

At one time, I was under the miss-understanding that all one piece trucks side frame were bettedorf (I can recognize Fox trucks for instance). If you look at the name of the file for the first photo it is bett-01.jpg showing my misunderstanding. People on the NGDF corrected my misunderstanding - I just did not rename the photo file names.

Both the C&TS railroad and members of the Friends were quite helpful.

Doug vV

TrainDetainer -

Obviously you misunderstood my question. I was not asking about interchange service, but simply if these "three piece Andrews trucks" were banned from common carrier track. We have this type truck under some of our equipment. Can we take them out on the common carrier track for maintenance purposes or for photo freights or for whatever? I can understand their being banned from interchange purposes, but that was NOT what I was asking.

Les

I didn't misunderstand anything, and I don't know anything about your particular organization or its status concerning interchange or general system. Your post sounded to me like you (or whatever museum you referenced) wanted to send equipment off site, which presumably required interchange. If your organization owns and operates trackage that's part of the general system, you can operate whatever type of bearings you want (within maintenance and other applicable regulations) on your own track. I have no knowledge specific to Andrews design other than the correlation to type of bearings on them.

They are not banned, they are restricted. See 49 CFR Section 215.203 and Appndix A of Part 215.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?r ... 4.1.1.1.10


Steve

From the source above, a list of freight car components whose use is restricted for reasons other than defects (cracks, etc), trucks start at G:

Appendix A to Part 215—Railroad Freight Car Components

List of components whose use is restricted by §215.203 of this part.

A. Air brakes:

The “K” type.

B. Axles:

1. Former AAR alternate standard tubular type.

2. Axle with letters “RJ” stamped on the end of the journal.

C. Couplers:

1. AAR type “D”, top or bottom operated.

2. AAR type “E” with 5″ by 7″ shank.

D. Draft arrangement:

1. Miner FR-16 and FR-19-F draft gears.

2. Farlow draft attachment.

E. Plain journal bearings:

Cartridge type.

F. Roller bearings:

1. Nippon Sieko Kabushiki Kaish (NSK) size 61⁄2 ″ by 12″ (marked “AAR 11”).

2. Hyatt cylindrical bearing, all sizes (marked “AAR 2”).

3. SKF “Piggybacker” spherical roller, size 6″ by 11″ (marked “AAR 7”).

G. Trucks:

1. Arch bar type.

2. Truck with cast steel pedestal side frame, short wheel base, and no bolster.

H. Truck bolsters:

1. A bolster with one of the following pattern numbers listed according to manufacturer:
A.S.F. Dresser (Symington) Birdsboro Lenoir car works
21183-B BO 5234 1458 CS-184.
1468
21183-N BO 5263 1471 CS-611.
BO 7076
21648-C BO 7076-A
22056-E BO 7115

2. Bolster cast before 1927.

3. Bolster without an identification mark or pattern number.

I. 1. Truck side frames:

A side frame with one of the following pattern numbers listed according to manufacturer:
A.S.F. National castings Buckeye Dominion
7273 33793-1B 3-1776 TF-5100
7323 F-420
21362 (cast prior to June 1941)
Pittsburgh steel foundry Scullin steel Bettendorf Canadian steel foundry
31673 42-CS-180 UT 456 26565
4-1862
3-1674 4665
4-2045 4770
12897 4942
12921 5220
21263 5364
5364-C
5364-E
5811-A
5869-B
6577-A

2. Side frame cast before 1927.

3. Side frame without an identification mark or pattern number.

4. Side frame with an “I”, “T”, or “L” section compression or tension member.

J. Wheels:

1. Cast iron wheel.

2. Cast steel wheel marked “AAR X-2.”

3. Southern cast steel wheel manufactured before May 7, 1958.

4. Griffin, three-riser cast steel wheel, ball rim design, 70-ton capacity.

5. Griffin, three-riser cast steel wheel, two-wear, 70- and 50-ton capacity, 33 inch, (marked X-5 or CS-2).

6. Wrought steel wheel manufactured before 1927, as indicated by marking on wheel.

7. Cast steel wheel marked AAR X-4.

8. Davis cast steel wheel.

9. One-wear, 70-ton Southern (ABEX) U1 cast steel wheels dated May 7, 1958 through December 31, 1969.

A. Wheels dated May 7, 1958, to January 1, 1964, are marked with the symbol “70T” cast on the back of the wheel plate; they are not marked “U-1.”

B. Wheels dated January 1, 1964 through December 31, 1969, are marked with the symbols “CJ-33” and “U-1” or “70T” and “U-1” cast on the back of the wheel plate.

K. Yokes:

1. Riveted type.

2. Keyless type.

3. Vertical key type.

Les -

Without knowing your situation, you need to cover several things. First Steve Z is correct about the restrictions listed in Part 215, but there is still the AAR ban which is a different set of rules entirely so what I said earlier about interchange ban still stands.
It's up to the receiving RR to accept or deny noncomplying equipment. The bearing bans started in 1994 IIRC and were total a few years later.

First there's the 50 year rule, so anything over 50 years requires an FRA waiver if it doesn't fall within the dedicated service exceptions.

Next, check compliance with the 215 restriction list. The short list looks like: First, and easiest, check the frame cross section to see if it's a restricted I, T or L section (Andrews frames were made in 5 or 6 different cross-sections over the years including those), then check the pattern numbers in the frames and bolsters to see if you have anything that's restricted. They must have casting IDs. Check the date that's cast into them against the 1927 cutoff date. Check the bearings to make sure they're standard plain bearings and not some fancy cartridge style, which are restricted. If you can't pass the list, you need a waiver to operate it.

Also, remember that the 215 restrictions are for freight use only.

Next, if you need to interchange, once you have your waivers you can go to the receiving RR(s) and present them with your waivers (they'll likely demand them) and negotiate/beg.

I don't know what you mean by 'common carrier track'. 'Common carrier' is a term used to define a realm of transportation business obligations. 'General system' is a railroad regulatory term that is used to define (among other things) applicability of regulations. In the case of Part 215, there is no exception for standard gauge non-general system operation - only industrial track operation, dedicated service (freight only), M/W equipment and Part 238 equipped passenger equipment.

If you want a better answer, familiarize yourself with the rules and call up your local FRA M&E inspector. If you haven't dealt with them before, they usually don't bite and are usually quite helpful. You sometimes come up against an inspector that's unfamiliar with rules like these that become more and more obscure to the mainstream operations as time goes by and may have to argue your point to come to an agreement. There's always the new guy out there or those that simply just don't deal with this stuff all the time, so be prepared.

Gee whiz, guys. All I asked for was a little help for a friend who asked about disassembling a pair of Andrews trucks to inspect and repair and/or replace various worn or damaged components.