"1-2" drop (IIRC) from the pit to the front of the roundhouse...Distance from pit wall to Roundhouse front wall is ~45'"

You guys are arguing about 1 inch in roughly 50 feet? Even at 2 inches, that's 1/4%.
That is, for practical purposes, "level", and you'd be hard pressed to even see it. Yes, I know, equipment can roll on a tiny grade, but this was most likely built level when originally constructed and one part settled a bit. Ever put a level on the wall or floor of an old house?

Against better judgement I'll answer this topic just once more. I did not intend my last post as any aspersion against Dave C. or anyone else. It sounds like Dave C.'s organization has well thought out safety procedures (From my experience it sounds like they are ahead of the curve compared to some other organizations with respect to safety) and is aware of the risks at their location, but that's not what the thread is about.

My examples were all illustrations of the considerations involved in what's known as Risk Management, NOT an indictment of anyone's procedures. I'm not going to argue about someone's procedures when the subject is facility design. All the points in a potential accident chain are considerations when evaluating design criteria, which is what the OP asked for.

The subject of goosing the throttle (working extra steam) was not even referenced by Dave C., but by dinwitty and Mike Ramsey, so I included it as a consideration.

But I will say this concerning the amount of grade being minimal, simply as a point of experience, not an argument - If anyone has ever used/studied track profiles, you will see that grades are usually noted in hundredths of a percent. That's because a 1/8% grade is important. In the bowl of a hump yard, that small percentage makes an enormous impact on momentum and distance-to-travel calculations. I have seen, more than a few times, in person, looking out the window of the tower or a locomotive or standing on the ground nearby, equipment that was stationary take off on supposedly 'level' track with or without any influence other than gravity and a very slight grade - sometimes nothing more than a low joint. I've seen mty boxcars run uphill in a gentle breeze on less than .02% only to come back to right where they were previously sitting when the breeze quit. Cars kicked into a track that stood still for half an hour or more have come rolling out (with no wind), a car that should be still on a level track started moving when someone leaned against it, and on and on ad nauseum. So yes, that .02 or .03% matters a lot, particularly in a tight location.

Since you're designing, you will avoid a lot of headaches if all your radial tracks meet the turntable on tangents--I'd say at least as long as the turntable, if possible. On the main topic: I'd go with a very slight downgrade away from the pit. No sense inviting a piece of equipment to roll into the pit when the table's away. And don't hide half the table from the prevailing wind behind a building. I read of a runaway turntable in Scotland caused by the wind coming around the end of the engine shed and hitting one end of the locomotive harder than the other. Sounds crazy, but you can feel the difference of a strong wind hitting a slab tender side vs. flowing over the boiler and the other end of the package.

I know I said I wouldn't add to the side discussion, but it it somewhat related to the primary discussion...

Probably the reason we try to keep ahead of the curve, on the safety and training, is that we have two members that have a habit of seeing/analyzing situations from a worst case point of view. One member was an industrial safety officer and the other is a machinery designer. Though many of us groan when they start adding their 2 cents worth of opinions, we know it could save money in the long run if we can incorporate corrections early, instead of after something bad happens.

It might be pessimistic, but when dealing with regulators, insurance and the general public it is sometimes worth stopping and thinking `How many ways can this situation go wrong' and then go `What can we do to prevent it from happening'. You won't catch everything, because as engineers say `Once you make something fool proof, someone goes and invents an improved fool.'.

Rich C.

OK, I'm going out on a limb here (I'm not an expert by any means), and the circumstances are, well, what the railroad had to work with, but one place I have a bit of concern about is the turntable on the WMSR at Frostburg.

The table is level, but it's also right at the top of a grade that's supposedly in the 3% range. The result is what looks like a considerable vertical kink going onto the table. I recall leading trucks, both on the late Jack Showalter's CP 4-6-2s and the WMSR's own 2-8-0 dropping considerably as the engines went onto the table, and getting a look at the angles the springs and equalizers would go into as well.

And the road is getting a 2-6-6-2 ready, and I'm not sure such engines like sharp vertical curves; the C&O had rules that Allegheny types were not to be operated over yard humps.

Is this something WMSR will have to address, or am I worrying about nothing?

OK fellas, I worked in the BN 23 st roundhouse in Denver for 13 years, made thousands of engine movements there, let me assure you that you need to have the track GOING UP LEADING TO THE TURNTABLE !!!

Otherwise, accidents can happen....