Pennsy Twin-Diner

Greg Scholl · **Posted:** Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:08 pm

Back in the early 70's Amtrak had several spare coaches, etc for sale, and my dad found out about some dining cars. He talked his Rotary Club into possible purchase, and even went there with another Rotarian to inspect the cars. I believe the cost was around $10,000 for the pair.
The club decided they would buy them, but when they notified Amtrak, they were told the cars were going to be put back into service.
At that time we still had a depot in Batavia, and several useable sidings(now all gone).

Does anyone know what became of these cars. Just curious.
Greg Scholl

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

James Mack · **Posted:** Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:50 pm

Greg

The group I was with in the 1970s had 2 P70s and we visited the junk yard on the W&N for parts. They had a line of PC cars and they had 1 or 2 Twin-Diners there.

jmack@enter.net

jeff · **Posted:** Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:28 pm

> Does anyone know what became of these cars.
> Just curious.
> Greg Scholl

After the east coast went to HEP and bumped from the Broadway and Lakeshore, they ended up running on the Starlight right before it went Superliner and then to the great repository at Beach Grove and I think to scrap. The other post mentions PC twin units near the W&N, those may have been some of the NYC twin units that made it to early years of Amtrak.

wrmdispatcher@aol.com

Greg Scholl · **Posted:** Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:41 pm

> After the east coast went to HEP and bumped
> from the Broadway and Lakeshore, they ended
> up running on the Starlight right before it
> went Superliner and then to the great
> repository at Beach Grove and I think to
> scrap. The other post mentions PC twin units
> near the W&N, those may have been some
> of the NYC twin units that made it to early
> years of Amtrak.

Thanks for the responses. I am sure they were ex-Pennsy Cars, and Dad went to Altoona I believe to see them. It was just one of those weird things that I thought of today. It would have been nice for the Rotary, as they had breakfast on Saturday Mornings at their meetings. They figured they could have rented the cars out to folks as well, and they would have been a bit of railway history preserved. It was good intentioned, but the timing wasn't there. As I recall the club took too long to make up their mind, and had they acted a week earlier it would have been theirs. At least passengers got to use them for many more years.
Greg

Videos
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Alan Maples · **Posted:** Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:20 pm

The EnterTrainment Line, which purchased the Maryland Midland Railway's excursion business in 1989, bought a twin-unit diner from Amtrak. I don't know the history of the car. Not long after, the EnterTrainment line was sold and later went bankrupt. The rolling stock was disposed of at auction, and I'm not sure where the twin-unit went.

There was also half of a Pennsy twin-diner stored at the Maryland Midland for a number of years. It was privately owned.

Alan Maples

AMaples@aol.com

Greg Scholl · **Posted:** Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:24 pm

> The EnterTrainment Line, which purchased the
> Maryland Midland Railway's excursion
> business in 1989, bought a twin-unit diner
> from Amtrak. I don't know the history of the
> car. Not long after, the EnterTrainment line
> was sold and later went bankrupt. The
> rolling stock was disposed of at auction,
> and I'm not sure where the twin-unit went.

> There was also half of a Pennsy twin-diner
> stored at the Maryland Midland for a number
> of years. It was privately owned.

> Alan Maples

What was the configuration of these cars. As I remember there was a crew quarters in one of the cars or something special about this duo. Can some one enlighten me on these diners.
Greg

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

Alan Maples · **Posted:** Sun Apr 27, 2003 7:55 pm

> What was the configuration of these cars. As
> I remember there was a crew quarters in one
> of the cars or something special about this
> duo. Can some one enlighten me on these
> diners.
> Greg

If my memory is correct, one half was table seating, possibly with a small service bar near the middle of the car. The other "half" was a combination kitchen dorm car.

Alan Maples

AMaples@aol.com

Peter Nicholson · **Posted:** Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:20 pm

> What was the configuration of these cars.

You can find PRR diner diagrams on prr.railfan.net (see link below, click on "diner diagrams"). They are organized by class and hence roughly from earlier to later build dates as the class number includes the car length. You can determine the year from the last two digits of the P-xx-yy number at the upper right of the diagram. The last group of diagrams is for the 1952 Budd "Congo cars", twin-unit diners with a lounge in the kitchen car. There is also a group of drawings from the 1946 orders for the Broadway and other overnight trains, twin-unit 68-seat diners with a dormitory sleeping 18 crew and 2 stewards in the kitchen cars. The 1938 "Fleet of Modernism" cars are also in there - look for the six-wheel trucks.

PRR Passenger Car diagrams
pnichol6@prodigy.net

Greg Scholl · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:19 am

> You can find PRR diner diagrams on
> prr.railfan.net (see link below, click on
> "diner diagrams"). They are
> organized by class and hence roughly from
> earlier to later build dates as the class
> number includes the car length. You can
> determine the year from the last two digits
> of the P-xx-yy number at the upper right of
> the diagram. The last group of diagrams is
> for the 1952 Budd "Congo cars",
> twin-unit diners with a lounge in the
> kitchen car. There is also a group of
> drawings from the 1946 orders for the
> Broadway and other overnight trains,
> twin-unit 68-seat diners with a dormitory
> sleeping 18 crew and 2 stewards in the
> kitchen cars. The 1938 "Fleet of
> Modernism" cars are also in there -
> look for the six-wheel trucks.
Thanks for the info. Wish I knew which type it was for sure. As I recall one car was all diner for patrons and the kitchen was in the second car, but I don't know what else was there, dorms for crew, or lounge. Interesting site.
Greg

Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

Phil Mulligan · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:37 pm

AMTRAK got the PRR Budd twin-unit diners for their #40-41. They were flat-sided stainless intended to be painted Tuscan. In Amtrak service they were plain stainless with the then-current Amstripes. These were the regular diners on 40-41 until HEP arrived.

One car was all-tables while the other had the kitchen and dorm space for the crew. I think in PRR service there was a small bar in the center of the table car.

Great Smoky Mt RR has one of these pairs.

These should not be confused with the fluted side Budd twin unit diners in the Congo order for NEC service. These cars were unpainted stainless with Tuscan letterboards and had a lounge in the kitchen car.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Peter Nicholson · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:06 pm

> I think in PRR service there was a small bar
> in the center of the table car.

That's right - there were two 32-seat dining sections separated by a bar section with two two-seat tables opposite the bar, a total of 68 seats. See Class D85c floor plan at site below.

PRR Passenger Car diagrams
pnichol6@prodigy.net

Steve Zuiderveen · **Posted:** Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:36 pm

The "Red" twin unit table car that was at MMID came from an auction from the Illinois Railway Museum in the '80s; they had gotten it from a lady in Joliet Illinois who was going to do a diner that never happened. It never saw Amtrak.

Of the full twin unit that saw Amtrak service at MMID; the table car went to the WMSR in Cumberland, where I believe the car still is. The diner end went, I believe, to Les Kasten, or may have gotten to Kasten through a side trade after the auction.

Anyway, the Red car and the Kitchen end were gutted and thoroughly rebuilt by the DL&W Car Company four years ago and are now Artrain 102 and 103, art galleries on the touring train. The extra wide opening between the two cars were conductive to this use.

Steve Zuiderveen

> The EnterTrainment Line, which purchased the
> Maryland Midland Railway's excursion
> business in 1989, bought a twin-unit diner
> from Amtrak. I don't know the history of the
> car. Not long after, the EnterTrainment line
> was sold and later went bankrupt. The
> rolling stock was disposed of at auction,
> and I'm not sure where the twin-unit went.

> There was also half of a Pennsy twin-diner
> stored at the Maryland Midland for a number
> of years. It was privately owned.

> Alan Maples

SZuidervee@aol.com

James Mack · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2003 2:28 am

I post here about the PC Twin dinner I seen in the Junk Yard on the W&N. The day I was there in 1971 they had PC cars Amtrak did not take. This is Luria Brothers at South Modena best known for scrapping steam locomotives. I was looking to see if some one would pick up on that.

jmack@enter.net

Bennett Levin · **Posted:** Tue May 13, 2003 1:15 pm

> Back in the early 70's Amtrak had several
> spare coaches, etc for sale, and my dad
> found out about some dining cars. He talked
> his Rotary Club into possible purchase, and
> even went there with another Rotarian to
> inspect the cars. I believe the cost was
> around $10,000 for the pair.
> The club decided they would buy them, but
> when they notified Amtrak, they were told
> the cars were going to be put back into
> service.
> At that time we still had a depot in
> Batavia, and several useable sidings(now all
> gone).

> Does anyone know what became of these cars.
> Just curious.
> Greg Scholl

Just look what has turned up on E-Bay!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... tegory=130

Bennett Levin

v-scarpitti@att.net