Thanks for the thoughtful note. A quick response. There IS a Rock Island Technical Society (I was a member for a number of years), but it is apparently in "disarray" at the present time. There has been some effort to get it going again, but certainly they are not in any position currently to aid in the preservation of this car. I have talked to a member of the Monticello Railway Museum, who had advised me of the cars existence, but he says that MRM would have no interest in the car at all.

A thought might be the outfit in Iowa that now owns the two Rock Island E units that they are reportedly restoring. I believe that their location is Manley, Iowa. Do I have that right? The 2700's, although built in 1949 for Chicago commuter service, were used on occasion by the Rock Island in intercity passenger service as overflow, or substitute, cars.

Les

I find this thread mildly amusing in that several posters are trying to proscribe some sort of monolithic mentality on the active membership of the Illinois Railway Museum ("IRM"). IRM is a large organization, with many departments, and many interests on the part of the volunteers and active members. From the organization's very beginnings, it appears that most rolling stock acquired by the museum was acquired through the support and hard work of a "patron," a member who spearheaded the acquisition process, initiated fundraising, ect. These efforts do not have to be formal, as I've personally seen RYPN poster RWKPullman walking amongst the members asking for donations for a specific piece of equipment.

IRM has a farily nice fleet of servicable RI "Al Capone" cars, with another one, which later went to the CRANDIC, being worked on as we speak. Steam Department volunteers are working hard to put a new paint job on RI 638, the 4-6-2.

Further, it's not like this car is on live rail, with a current COT&S and ready to moved and placed into service upon arrival at IRM's interchange with the UP.

At the end of the day, we can bloviate all we want about the purported benefits this car has to offer IRM, but it will take a person or two, involved in the museum, to put together a plan and approach the museum's board of directors.

Another salient point is whether the true condition of the car is known. Whomever spearheads this effort would need to ascertain the answers to the following questions, if not others:

-How much structural rust or body rust does it have?
-Will it need significant repairs? If so, how much?
-Does it still have the Ice Engine?
-If not, how much would it cost to install a more modern air conditioner in the car? -What about powering the car if the Ice Engine is missing?
-What is the seller's "bottom dollar" and how much wiggle room does he have in the price?
-What condidition are the trucks in? Are the wheels servicable?
-How much would it cost to move it to IRM?
-Can replacement seats be found?
-Using volunteer effort, how long would it take to make the car servicable?

The list goes on. Honestly, assuming someone could pony up the $20k or so to buy the car and move it to IRM (overly conservative estimate here), they have done the easy part. The hard part will be marshalling IRM resources and fundraising to make the car one which would be used in service.

This is why it's often much easier to be an armchair preservationist, demanding other museums do what we think is best, rather than actually doing something. Bottom line, if you think this car should be saved at IRM, partner with someone who is involved and develop a cost estimate and present it to the Board of Directors for approval.

Les, those RI E-units are still sitting at Mid America Car in Kansas City, last I heard.

David -

Thanks for that info.



Les

That'd be the Manly Junction Railroad Museum.

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/manlyjunction

That's Dan Sabin's brainchild/project. Both E-units need hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of work. Somebody should probably point out this car to Mr. Sabin, the worst he can say is no.

If Sabin won't or can't acquire it, come up with a proposal to bring this car to IRM (Since this seems to be the favorite). Use David's guide above as a check list.

I can say if IRM does acquire the car, I will put work into restoring it.

A lot of the rolling stock IRM has obtained in the past few years has been brought on the property before their weird "track fees" and "barn fees" were covered, sometimes even displacing other pieces that had been stored indoors for years prior. So I don't see why that itself should prevent anything else from being brought in with the same arrangement of reimbursing for the amount of "space" it takes up later.

It seems this car will have to be craned and trucked at least to the nearest available rail siding where it can be put on a flatcar, since it is probably not interchange worthy.

I cannot provide anywhere near the likely costs, but I wish to announce to the appropriate parties that I am willing to donate what I can to any official fund at any organization to assist with the most urgently needed upfront costs (purchase and moving) of securing this artifact.

H Jebone -

I too rode in 2700's at times, when commuting from Washington Heights (104th Street) on the Main Line and from 115th Street (Morgan Park) on the Suburban Line. I too would like to see the 2702 saved but an organization has got to be willing to try. Haven't seen that yet.

Les

Details from Randall's Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard:

20 cars, CRI&P #2700-#2719, Lot #W6834, Plan #W51908, Lot ordered in May 1947, cars delivered between October and November 1949.

These cars were built to 3 different variants:

Variation 1 consisted of 4 cars, #2700-#2703, with AC, 100 seats, and restrooms.

Variation 2 consisted of 8 cars, #2704-#2711, with AC, 102 seats, and no restrooms.

Variation 3 consisted of 8 cars, #2712-#2719, with forced draft ventilation, 102 seats, and no restrooms.

In 1950, 7 cars from variants 2 and 3 were changed to variation 1: 4 cars from variation 2 (#2704, #2705, #2710, and #2711), and 3 cars from variation 3 (#2712, #2713, and #2717). Randall does not note if the 3 cars from variation 3 were changed from forced draft to AC.

As far as dispositions, here's what's listed:

2 cars (#2700 and #2701) were both wrecked in 1972.

8 cars (#2703-#2709, and #2718) were sold to the Erman Corporation in 1977.

10 cars (#2702, #2710-#2717, and #2719) were sold to the Erman Corporation in 1978.

Looking at the Rock Island Technical Society's passenger car disposition list: http://www.rits.org/www/equipment/ripassdisp.html

#2702 is not listed, but #2711 is listed as located in Manhattan, KS.

Reading the Trainorders thread linked to on page 1, besides #2702 in Herington, other Crazy Cleve's locations mentioned were in Manhattan and Emporia. The car used in Emporia is not mentioned, but after Crazy Cleve's closed, #2711 was moved to Amarillo, TX.

It isn't IRM isnt interested, its is there support behind it. Thats what drives IRM.

If it is sitting safe for now, perhaps a drive isnt needed, but if its in line for a scrapper's torch, perhaps you will get an alert out and try to find a home.

IRM still needs more barns for more equipment to get under cover.

The topic of these cars came up on Trainorders yesterday. Membership not required to read page 1 of the chat.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... 11,3516716

Les Beckman noted (in this thread - http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40632&p=270627) that preserving the 2702 might be a "missed opportunity" - so it might be a good time to take another look.

Ozark Mountain railcar still lists this car for sale as of Dec. 2017.

There are some related developments from 2017 that are also worthy of note:

In 2017 the Illinois Railway Museum put forth a fundraising campaign for a locomotive (Toledo Peoria & Western 800 - an Alco C424) on a contingency basis. As far as I can remember, this is the first time the IRM Board has used this approach to manage the risk of a new acquisition while putting forth a commitment to follow through with the project if fundraising would be successful.

The Niles Canyon Railroad retrofitted a new generator in the existing housing and frame for a Waukesha Ice Engine. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1393576604021439&id=186409164738195. The serviceability of Waukesha components often comes up when looking at the restoration of sealed window coaches powered by them and the approach developed by Niles Canyon provides what may be a solution to balance the historic appearance and operational reliability.

The Illinois Railway Museum also began restoring Rock Island coach 2524. Unlike the 5 other Standard Steel coaches on the property (and in service) this one was rebuilt by the Rock Island with a drop ceiling and a forced air ventilation system. Historically, this car represents the incremental efforts that Chicago's railroads applied to their open-window coach fleets before replacing them with bi-levels. The Rock Island powered their forced air ventilation from the DC trainline, from the locomotive. A new generator in 2702 could provide the power for the 2524's fans.

Finally, it looks like 2017 was a very good year for the museum in terms of attendance and that an additional revenue service car would be a useful addition to the fleet.

My bottom line question is this: Would the IRM Board consider passing a resolution approving the acquisition of 2702 contingent on fund raising? This would give those who are interested in this car confidence in making contributions for its preservation.

Tom -

One other IRM "related development" is the cosmetic restoration of the museums Rock Island 4-6-2 #938. I'm not sure just when the Rock dropped steam power from its Chicago commuter service, but I would think that the 2702 might well have been on the property before that happened.

Les

You make a good case. You just need someone with the time and energy to champion the cause. Could that person be you?

One possibility is that a group of us buys the car and pays storage on it where it sits in Kansas until a museum home can be found. The museum in Medota, Il, might take it. I bet a dozen interested donors could be found to pitch in, buy it, and pay storage.

But again, a leader willing to sacrifice a lot of personal time is needed to organize and champion that effort. Which one of us is willing to make that kind of commitment?

Museums can offer added value in managing the collective efforts of individuals to make a project happen. I am not in a position to be *the* champion for the cause, but I would certainly support an effort for IRM to acquire the car because they have the resources and track-record to successfully complete the project.

A few other notes

One blog reports that IRM's general admissions for 2017 increased 30% over 2016.
https://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/

To answer Les's question about steam on the Rock Island's Suburban Service - the first 2700s were delivered in October 1949 and steam made its last run on September 16, 1953 - the official date of dieselization. IRM's Rock Island 938 was the last steam locomotive under steam on that day. http://www.irm.org/railwire/rw154.html