National Park Service and the South Shore Line Cars?

wesp · **Posted:** Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:07 pm

How and why did the National Park Service wind up with a collection of cars from Chicago, South Shore and South Bend? Did NPS have intentions to operate the cars as part of the Indiana Dunes Seashore?

Wesley

NS 3322 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:43 am

It appears the cars are managed through the Indiana Dunes Division and are located at seven different railroad museums. Who are the other 6?

National Park Service wrote:

Date: June 29, 2017
The National Park Service and East Troy Railroad Museum, in East Troy, Wisconsin, are hosting a joint interpretative program featuring historic South Shore Railroad Car #33 on Saturday, July 8, during the museum’s annual “Chicago Day” event.

Car #33 is one of 19 historic South Shore Railroad Cars which had been conveyed to the National Park Service in 1984 after they had been decommissioned by the Chicago, South Shore, & South Bend Railroad. Since 1984 the National Park Service worked with numerous organizations in an effort to preserve the historic cars, and finally succeeded in securing their preservation in 2010 by transferring them to seven railroad museums which specialize in telling the stories of our nation’s transportation history.

East Troy Railroad Museum was chosen as the recipient of eight of the 19 historic cars, because they demonstrated the ability to preserve, maintain, and operate the cars through a large contingent of dedicated volunteers.

Four restored historic South Shore Railroad Cars will be in operation during the museum’s annual “Chicago Day” on Saturday, July 8, which also includes an evening Dinner Train (advanced reservations required). This year will be the second joint Interpretative program hosted by the museum and the National Park Service.

The historic South Shore Railroad Cars will depart the museum hourly from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. CDT. National Park Service Rangers will be at the museum, and volunteers will ride in each car, to answer questions about the National Park Service, Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore, and the history of the South Shore Railroad.

East Troy Electric Railroad operates on 8 miles of electric rail line that has been in continuous operation for over 100 years. The museum has been in operation since 1972. It is the only museum in the country that regularly operates historic South Shore Railroad Cars on an electric interurban line. Their operating season extends from May through October with special holiday events in December. To learn more about the museum go to: easttroyrr.org

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

Interesting for that trip, Bob Harris is still trying to get the park to get the idea going again using his remaining cars he has since the original cars have been donated away. Unknown if any of them would be returned. The Park would need a serious storage and servicing for the equipment.

sousakerry · **Joined:** Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:36 pm **Posts:** 198

Southern Michigan Railroad Society has 2 of the cars. Not sure if they were part of this program or not.

70000 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:07 pm

As a matter of interest, back in 1987 when I had an Amtrak system rail pass for a US vacation, I remember passing a number of the old South Shore cars, apparently in store, by the lineside at Chesterton, IN. Would these have been the NPS ones, or were they there for another reason?
As its 30+ years ago now, I can't remember exactly how many were about, but from memory there were a number of them there.

wilkinsd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:56 pm

Look at the block quote from the NPS, they haven't been owned by the Park Service since 2010, when they finally "transferred" them to the seven museums.

I believe the idea was to use the cars to operate a shuttle on a newly built track where one could transfer from the South Shore to the NPS-owned line and run to the lakefront.

The Preserved North American Electric Railway Car page has information on all preserved South Shore equipment, including the cars once owned by NPS:

http://www.bera.org/pnaerc.html

Clay320 · **Joined:** Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:49 pm **Posts:** 53

sousakerry wrote:

Southern Michigan Railroad Society has 2 of the cars. Not sure if they were part of this program or not.

They were. They have #1 and #36. #1 runs on their trains regularly, #36 has not been restored. Ownership changed from a long term lease from the NPS to the RR owning them outright in 2010. Up until then the NPS maintained that they could recall the cars at anytime, which made it hard to justify any major maintenance or restoration work. From what I have been told that is part of the reason #1 was the only one ever to be maintained to be operational at the SMR, too much risk to put money into both.

patentable · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:28 pm

RE: CSS&SB cars in Chesterton IN

There are a couple of former CSS&SB cars along the right of way of the NS in Chesterton Indiana - viewable to some extent at:

http://www.railstream.net/live-cameras/ ... -east-free

listed at:
http://www.bera.org/cgi-bin/pnaerc-quer ... Chesterton

Bob

NS 3322 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:16 pm

70000 wrote:

As a matter of interest, back in 1987 when I had an Amtrak system rail pass for a US vacation, I remember passing a number of the old South Shore cars, apparently in store, by the lineside at Chesterton, IN. Would these have been the NPS ones, or were they there for another reason?
As its 30+ years ago now, I can't remember exactly how many were about, but from memory there were a number of them there.

I believe these were part of a now closed restaurant.

Here is a photo I took back in 2016.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4433017

Here are photos I found from 1984, 1987 and 1988 of the four cars. Photos by Stephen Borleske.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3161298

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3010474

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3246819

70000 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:36 am

NS 3322 wrote:

70000 wrote:

As a matter of interest, back in 1987 when I had an Amtrak system rail pass for a US vacation, I remember passing a number of the old South Shore cars, apparently in store, by the lineside at Chesterton, IN. Would these have been the NPS ones, or were they there for another reason?
As its 30+ years ago now, I can't remember exactly how many were about, but from memory there were a number of them there.

I believe these were part of a now closed restaurant.

Here is a photo I took back in 2016.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4433017

Here are photos I found from 1984, 1987 and 1988 of the four cars. Photos by Stephen Borleske.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3161298

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3010474

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3246819

Many thanks for that info. I've actualy been back to the Chesterton area by car a couple of times in the past 20 years, but didn't think that they may still have been lurking there!

Steve A W · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:10 pm

Their still there, painted ugly brown and the complex
is empty and for sale.

Steve A W

SThomas · **Posted:** Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:10 pm

Hi everyone:

I spent the day today with Judy Collins, the Historical Architect for the National Park Service at Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore. Judy was doing an internet search to discover where our press releases on the 2018 Chicago Day event had been posted and she came across your posts based on last year's press release.

Judy thought it was important to make sure that everyone knows that all the former South Shore cars were legally transferred to the various museums who had them "on loan" in 2010. Additionally, the NPS transferred the remaining five cars, which had been in storage, to the East Troy Railroad Museum in 2010. The NPS works with the museums to interpret the history of the South Shore Railroad.

The seven museums involved are/were: Seashore Trolley Museum, Kennebunkport, ME; Southern Michigan Railroad Society, Clinton, MI; National New York Central Museum, Elkhart, IN; Indiana Railway Museum, French Lick, IN; Illinois Railway Museum, Union, IL; Fox River Trolley Museum, South Elgin, IL; and the East Troy Railroad Museum, East Troy, WI.

According to Judy The National Park Service has not worked with Bob Harris on the preservation of the South Shore cars since 2007

wesp · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:55 pm

My turn to drag up a thread from the Way Back Machine.

Attachment:

South Shore Museum Logo.png [ 39.99 KiB | Viewed 6312 times ]

With the recent announcement of the South Shore Line Museum Project, I was thinking about the earlier interest of the National Park Service in acquiring the fleet of cars that has since been dispersed as noted in this thread.

Was there ever a published study or other written report for electric railway service to Indiana Dunes?

Or was this a case that NPS acquired the cars when then had the chance in hopes something would later develop?

Links, anecdotes, or sources for any study are appreciated.

Thank you,

Wesley