While everyone else has fun with your favorite railroad!

Any how, thanks for a great thread... it's moving week for me... so things are hectic... perhaps next week, we can start another round... rail weight of the GCRR... or Ed Collins' favorite hymns while running Shays ... or ...

http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com

> While everyone else has fun with your
> favorite railroad!

> Any how, thanks for a great thread... it's
> moving week for me... so things are
> hectic... perhaps next week, we can start
> another round... rail weight of the GCRR...
> or Ed Collins' favorite hymns while running
> Shays ... or ...

shall we get into the red-painted shays debate? nah...probably a bad idea, lest Jim gets an idea up his sleeve for September and GSMR trying to recreate Bear Creek of the late 1960s.

Kevin

k_gilliam@bellsouth.net

One can only wonder what the 1925 will look like with racing stripes, when it defends its title as the fastest Shay in the west at the next rail fair.

http://www.svry.com
ronbrin@eoni.com

Get some fire down the sides, an STP sticker on the back pilot beam . . . and something a little more flashy than that ESSO can on the running board . . . ;-)

JAC

> Get some fire down the sides, an STP sticker
> on the back pilot beam . . . and something a
> little more flashy than that ESSO can on the
> running board . . . ;-)

> JAC

...and a Frosted Flakes logo on the tender? Ed Collins would be rolling over about right now.

Kevin


k_gilliam@bellsouth.net

>Which begs the question "What was that hilarious sign that the 1925 sported on the back of the tender during Railfair 99?" My ancient mind and loss of memory is showing. BTW we are tuning up the Mt. Emily No. 1 for a rematch. Headers, more carbs, etc.

fitzrr@pioneer.net

I beleive that was the sign you remember hanging on the back of the #1925 during Railfair '99

phess@webkorner.com

or was it "Will trade beer for coal"


phess@webkorner.com

Railfair was quite a show it is the only place I have ever seen two Shays running at the same time!

Roaring Camp & Big Trees RR has more than that but I have never seen them run a multi-engine train.

Ted


ted_miles@nps.gov

There's no real point for them to run a multi-engine train. As it is, the 7 with a full load has to 'double' the switchback by having a diesel pull the last few cars of the train through the switches.

That being said, I do have photos of the Tuolumne and Dixianna (1 and 2) double heading on a rainy day back in the mid to late eighties, after the corkscrew trestle burned and was replaced by the switchback. Of course, that is a heisler and a shay.

As for two shays operating together:
historically:
- Expo 86
- Castro Point Railway
- Railfair 99
- West Side & Cherry Valley

present day:
- Yosemite Mountain (they used to run railfan weekends, dont know if they still do)
- Cass Scenic

Finally, I strongly feel that Roaring Camp reflects narrow gauge geared logging better than any route around and would definetly benefit from a railfan weekend .....especially with all the foamers in the Bay Area. A few dougle headers, short logging train...heck, they even have an operating steam backwoods sawmill to cut the loads on!

Well, one can dream!

Ben Quirk

PS: Actually, I also have photos of the two baldwins doubleheading and just making it up the hill!
PPS: I always take a ride and then walk the mountain to railfan. How many places can you walk to the destination before the train arrives?

> Railfair was quite a show it is the only
> place I have ever seen two Shays running at
> the same time!

> Roaring Camp & Big Trees RR has more
> than that but I have never seen them run a
> multi-engine train.

> Ted


benquirkc@yahoo.com

>
>

> As for two shays operating together:
> historically:
> - Expo 86
> - Castro Point Railway
> - Railfair 99
> - West Side & Cherry Valley

> present day:
> - Yosemite Mountain (they used to run
> railfan weekends, dont know if they still
> do)
> - Cass Scenic

> Finally, I strongly feel that Roaring Camp
> reflects narrow gauge geared logging better
> than any route around and would definetly
> benefit from a railfan weekend
> .....especially with all the foamers in the
> Bay Area. A few dougle headers, short
> logging train...heck, they even have an
> operating steam backwoods sawmill to cut the
> loads on!

> Well, one can dream!

> Ben Quirk

> PS: Actually, I also have photos of the two
> baldwins doubleheading and just making it up
> the hill!
> PPS: I always take a ride and then walk the
> mountain to railfan. How many places can you
> walk to the destination before the train
> arrives?

Ben,

I too have enjoyed Roaring Camp & Big Trees since 1964 when they were just building past Grizzly Flats (before I moved up to the Bay Area). On my visit (on July 4), the Heisler was on a work train and the Dixiana pushed the passenger train. For the last train of the day they put the Heisler on the other end of the train as a helper; pretty neat for someone seeing a Shay and a Heisler running for the first time! I still sometimes chase the train (by foot, as you said), watching the departure from the station, then hiking up the hill to Grizzly Flat, then by the back road to above the switchback, then again to the top.

A slight correction to your listing of where two Shays have run at once; at Castro Point we never had the Pickering 7 fired up, so all we had were Pickering Shay 12 and Heisler 5 running at once (and even doubleheaded), but not two Shays. And another place where two Shays have (and could again) run at once is Georgetown Loop. As far as multiple geared engines, Mt. Rainier Scenic has run geared triple-headers with Shay, Climax, and Heisler, and your mention of Expo 86 brings back memories of three Shays and a Heisler all running. This included our Pickering Shay #12 (well, we did have #12 fired up and running in the yards for a short time until we found our state boiler permits did not meet their requirements; this was long before the current FRA requirements were even thought of. This happened the day before the big locomotive procession and all the rest of our crew were at the crew briefing, so I was hostler, fireman, and engineer all at once; talk about one-armed paperhangers.....).

Chris H.

holombo.chris@ssd.loral.com

Since the switchback tail tracks limit train lenght to one locomotive and six cars, there isn't much sense double heading. That being said, on many weekends during the summer a second section will operate 15 minutes behind the first train, passing at the balloon switches. As for a logging train, well almost all of the old wooden cars have fallen victim to our wet climate and the fact that the mold here eats wood like you wouldn't believe.
Tom

ironbartom@aol.com

> There's no real point for them to run a
> multi-engine train.

I've heard tale of one instance of the two Shays double-heading around the balloon.

As it is, the 7 with a
> full load has to 'double' the switchback by
> having a diesel pull the last few cars of
> the train through the switches.

True if a "full load" is an atypical eight-car train. Usually RC runs six (or fewer) cars but with high ticket sales eight cars are used. Any of the three locomotives is capable of pulling a loaded eight-car train up the mountain - save for the switchback. The switchback's tail tracks are only long enough to accomodate the locomotive and six cars.

What to do? In short, cut two cars from the rear of the eight-car train to go through the switchback as Ben referred to above.

When ticket sales reach a certain point the office calls for two more cars and the diesel switcher brings them down to the station. Once these cars are coupled to the train, the diesel remains on the rear for the trip up the mountain. At the switchback the procedure goes something like this:

1) the steamer pulls the train into the lower tail track (as with a normal six-car train);

2) the last two cars are cut from the train and the diesel backs them down the hill to clear the fouling point;

3) the steamer now has a typical six-car train that it pushes up the ladder track and into the upper tail track;

4) the steamer then pulls through the upper switch and spots the train above the switch to await the diesel and its two cars;

5) the diesel follows the same steps and arrives behind six-car train;

6) the two extra cars (and the diesel) are recoupled to the train and the eight-car consist heads to the top of the mountain.

Roughly the same procedure is done in reverse coming down the mountain. The only difference being that once the train is reassembled below the switchback the diesel usually cuts loose from the train and follows at a distance.

Hopefully this makes sense, it's a bit difficult to explain but it's pretty simple once you see it done.

Oh and the sawmill could operate - hasn't in several years - mostly due to lack of folks to operate it.

Natasha

71446975@quixnet.net

Natasha:

> Any of the three
> locomotives is capable of pulling a loaded
> eight-car train up the mountain - save for
> the switchback.

Does this include the 1 and 2? That must be quite a sight to see, with the engines just barely being able to make it up the grade!

Ben Quirk

benquirkc@yahoo.com

Chris & Tom:

You're right...Castro Point only had one shay running at a time, but with the 5, 12, and mallet, it sure was a special place!

Construction of Roaring Camp was before my time and Ive always been curious about how it happened. The line definetly had some major engineering and construction obstacles to overcome. Was this done with large machinery or just a couple of guys and their heisler?

Also, what were operations like in the early days? With no loop or sidings at the top, was the train just pushed up and the direction reversed?

Finally, what was the point of the Kahuku making trips from the Felton station to the Roaring Camp Station? Was it just as an addition to the ride up the mountain like it is today or was it used to ferry passengers in to Roaring Camp? Did the Felton trains back into Roaring Camp between Bear Mountain trips and reverse direction or did they continue around the loop?

Sorry for all the questions, but the literature on the early days of this line are incredibly limited.

Thanks a lot.

Ben Quirk

> Ben,

> I too have enjoyed Roaring Camp & Big
> Trees since 1964 when they were just
> building past Grizzly Flats (before I moved
> up to the Bay Area). On my visit (on July
> 4), the Heisler was on a work train and the
> Dixiana pushed the passenger train. For the
> last train of the day they put the Heisler
> on the other end of the train as a helper;
> pretty neat for someone seeing a Shay and a
> Heisler running for the first time! I still
> sometimes chase the train (by foot, as you
> said), watching the departure from the
> station, then hiking up the hill to Grizzly
> Flat, then by the back road to above the
> switchback, then again to the top.

> A slight correction to your listing of where
> two Shays have run at once; at Castro Point
> we never had the Pickering 7 fired up, so
> all we had were Pickering Shay 12 and
> Heisler 5 running at once (and even
> doubleheaded), but not two Shays. And
> another place where two Shays have (and
> could again) run at once is Georgetown Loop.
> As far as multiple geared engines, Mt.
> Rainier Scenic has run geared triple-headers
> with Shay, Climax, and Heisler, and your
> mention of Expo 86 brings back memories of
> three Shays and a Heisler all running. This
> included our Pickering Shay #12 (well, we
> did have #12 fired up and running in the
> yards for a short time until we found our
> state boiler permits did not meet their
> requirements; this was long before the
> current FRA requirements were even thought
> of. This happened the day before the big
> locomotive procession and all the rest of
> our crew were at the crew briefing, so I was
> hostler, fireman, and engineer all at once;
> talk about one-armed paperhangers.....).

> Chris H.


benquirkc@yahoo.com