The Museum of Transportation has begun the cosmetic restoration of our "Aerotrain" locomotive and two cars. The Gateway Division, NMRA, made a substantial donation toward this project after their sucessful 2001 hosting of the NMRA annual convention in St. Louis. We will move the train into the shop as the work proceeds, but it has begun outdoors.

Museum of Transportation Projects
rdgoldfede@aol.com

Just out of curiosity am I the only one who has trouble viewing the pictures on the MOT website? On the projects page I get the first picture just fine but the others fail to load. I've always noticed this about their website. Many of the pictures are in a .png format that for some reason do not load on my computer.

I'm using a Windows ME PC with IE 5.5.

davelecount@juno.com

right you are! I have the same problem unless I am using my coomputer at work which is on a high speed DSL line.

I guess the MOT site does not do well with computer based modems?

Ted Miles


ted_miles@nps.gov

> The Museum of Transportation has begun the
> cosmetic restoration of our
> "Aerotrain" locomotive and two
> cars.
Being somewhat aware of the Aerotrain, and its test runs on the NYC and PRR (and possibly UP?) I'm wondering if this set was one of the test models, or was bought new by CRI&P. Weren't there only 5 trainsets made? Thanks for any input.

> Being somewhat aware of the Aerotrain, and
> its test runs on the NYC and PRR (and
> possibly UP?) I'm wondering if this set was
> one of the test models, or was bought new by
> CRI&P. Weren't there only 5 trainsets
> made? Thanks for any input.

As I recall the history, there were two Aerotrain demonstrators built, one of which did indeed test on the UP as the 'City of Las Vegas'. Both of the demonstrators were purchased by the CRIP, who also bought a set built new. As far as I know, those three sets were the only 'Aerotrains'. I'm not sure which of the three sets is at Saint Louis NMOT. I believe another set was preserved at the Museum in Green Bay.
Dan


dan-rohrback@cox.net

I grew up along the RI Suburban Line in Chicago, seeing these beasts on a daily basis. And unless a R.I.T.S. member contradicts me, I will quote from David Randall's book "Streamliner Cars Vol 3, ACF and Other Builders".

According to Randall, there were 20 Aerotrain cars altogether. First set was numbered 10-29. All eventually wound up on the Rock Island. Cars 10-18 were the straight coaches and car 19 was the seldom seen "Obs". "13 and 18 at National Railroad Museum in Green Bay; 14 at National Museum of Transport St Louis., remainder sold to Erman Howell for scrap. GM1000 Consist. On display at GM's POWERAMA in 1955, ran on PRR in 1956 and 1957 before being sold to the Rock Island in 1958."

Cars 20-29 were the UP City of Las Vegas Train. Cars 20-23 were straight coaches. Car 24 was the full length snack bar. Car 25 was a bar with a 20-seat lounge. Cars 26-27 were straight coaches. Car 28 was a 36 seat coach with a crew room. Car 29 was the "Obs". All reverted to straight coaches on the RI except 29. "GM 1001 Consist. 10 cars ran in revenue service on NYC in 1956. (Great Lakes Aerotrain), 9 cars leased to UP in 1956 and 1957. The entire train was sold to the Rock Island in 1958. All cars retired 1966, 27 is at the National Museum of Transport in St.Louis, and the remainder sold to Erman Howell for scrap."

They ran on the Rock Island for a while in Chicago-Peoria service. The Rock also bought the U.S. TALGO demonstrator, which for some reason came without its locomotive. So the Rock had EMD build an LWT-12 on special order to pull the Talgo cars, and called it the Jet Rocket. It also ran between Chicago and Peoria for a time. The Jet Rocket was out of service by the early 1960s having spent almost all its life in suburban service. The Aerotrains were also quickly withdrawn from mainline service with the same rough riding complaints that the PRR and UP had received. The Aerotrains ran in commuter service until 1966 when the first Bi-Levels arrived from Budd.

> As I recall the history, there were two
> Aerotrain demonstrators built, one of which
> did indeed test on the UP as the 'City of
> Las Vegas'. Both of the demonstrators were
> purchased by the CRIP, who also bought a set
> built new. As far as I know, those three
> sets were the only 'Aerotrains'. I'm not
> sure which of the three sets is at Saint
> Louis NMOT. I believe another set was
> preserved at the Museum in Green Bay.
> Dan


sbs5cats@kc.rr.com

Should read: First set was numbered 10-19. Sorry.

> According to Randall, there were 20
> Aerotrain cars altogether. First set was
> numbered 10-29. All eventually wound up on
> the Rock Island. Cars 10-18 were the
> straight coaches and car 19 was the seldom
> seen "Obs". "13 and 18 at
> National Railroad Museum in Green Bay; 14 at
> National Museum of Transport St Louis.,
> remainder sold to Erman Howell for scrap.
> GM1000 Consist. On display at GM's POWERAMA
> in 1955, ran on PRR in 1956 and 1957 before
> being sold to the Rock Island in 1958."

> Cars 20-29 were the UP City of Las Vegas
> Train. Cars 20-23 were straight coaches. Car
> 24 was the full length snack bar. Car 25 was
> a bar with a 20-seat lounge. Cars 26-27 were
> straight coaches. Car 28 was a 36 seat coach
> with a crew room. Car 29 was the
> "Obs". All reverted to straight
> coaches on the RI except 29. "GM 1001
> Consist. 10 cars ran in revenue service on
> NYC in 1956. (Great Lakes Aerotrain), 9 cars
> leased to UP in 1956 and 1957. The entire
> train was sold to the Rock Island in 1958.
> All cars retired 1966, 27 is at the National
> Museum of Transport in St.Louis, and the
> remainder sold to Erman Howell for
> scrap."

> They ran on the Rock Island for a while in
> Chicago-Peoria service. The Rock also bought
> the U.S. TALGO demonstrator, which for some
> reason came without its locomotive. So the
> Rock had EMD build an LWT-12 on special
> order to pull the Talgo cars, and called it
> the Jet Rocket. It also ran between Chicago
> and Peoria for a time. The Jet Rocket was
> out of service by the early 1960s having
> spent almost all its life in suburban
> service. The Aerotrains were also quickly
> withdrawn from mainline service with the
> same rough riding complaints that the PRR
> and UP had received. The Aerotrains ran in
> commuter service until 1966 when the first
> Bi-Levels arrived from Budd.


sbs5cats@kc.rr.com

The .png is a poor choice for interoperability on a web site. Some browsers do not support it. If you cannot view the file at all (after waiting for it to load) try installing Apple's Quicktime viewer. It _may_ add the support for the file format.

Also, the .png files on MOTs site are needlessly large, half a meg EACH. The same file in a low compression jepg will be about 95K (one fith the size) with no noticable degridation in quality. MOT webmaster needs to rethink this one.

> right you are! I have the same problem
> unless I am using my coomputer at work which
> is on a high speed DSL line.

> I guess the MOT site does not do well with
> computer based modems?

> Ted Miles


The East Broad Top Railroad Homepage

ebtrr@spikesys.com

I believe it was the Chicago, West Pullman and Southern, or maybe the adjacent steel mill, that had a yard office made out of one of the Aerotrain tail cars, complete with Cadillac-style tailfins. This was still standing in the middle 1980's, although I suppose it's gone now.

One of these trainsets made a famous trip as the Santa Fe El Capitan, and was written up by David P. Morgan, who tried not to be too uncomplimentary about the ride and accommodation over the 2,222 miles between Dearborn Street and LAUPT. Wisely, paying passengers were never again asked to endure GMC bus air springs for that distance.

Aarne H. Frobom
The Steam Railroading Institute
P. O. Box 665
Owosso, MI 48867-0665

Thanks for the feedback. Didn't realize there was a problem. Rethinking now in progress.

Museum of Transportation
rdgoldfede@aol.com

A friend rode the PRR Aerotrain from Philly to Pittsburgh. Said he got seasick.

Funny, the GMC PD-4104 bus was a smooth rider. But in those days the Turnpike had opposed joints and the PRR staggered.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

I remember that! Never took a picture of it, though.

I rode 1001 once from La Salle Street to 111th on the Suburban Line. It rode pretty good compared to the 1925 "Jesse James" cars. It was the only trainset besides the 1949 "Peter Witt" 2700s that had air conditioning on the Rock commuter runs, and I remember it was ice cold. I was really impressed that a commuter train had reclining seats and luggage racks. But then I was only 12.

There is an apocryphal story about the president of Caterpillar Tractor being quite enraged at the Aerotrain and Talgo taking over the Chicago-Peoria runs from conventional streamlined equipment. Cat was one of the Rock's major shippers in those days, and an edict from its president made all the accountants at La Salle Street stand up and take notice.

Rumor has it that he hated the lightweights so much, that he chartered busses to take Peoria-Chicago passengers up to Chillicothe on the Santa Fe 17 miles north, to ride to and from Chicago. As the story goes, the Rock CEO, not wanting to offend his biggest shipper quickly withdrew the midgets from the Peoria run. Probably not true, but fun to ponder, anyway!

> A friend rode the PRR Aerotrain from Philly
> to Pittsburgh. Said he got seasick.

> Funny, the GMC PD-4104 bus was a smooth
> rider. But in those days the Turnpike had
> opposed joints and the PRR staggered.


sbs5cats@kc.rr.com

It rode pretty
> good compared to the 1925 "Jesse
> James" cars.

Seems like these cars outlasted many others in commuter service and obviously many still remain in museum and tourist service. Seems that there are photos of them operating in the late 1970's and perhaps as late as 1980? Was it simply a case of them being too easy to maintain for suburban service compared to the newer cars or was it that the newer cars were better utilized on other assignments? Anyone have the inside scoop?

David Farlow

Hudson.Industries@att.net

I've changed this photo to a JPG and it should work better for most of you this way. The others will take some time that I don't have right now, but we will avoid this problem in the future.

Museum of Transportation Projects
rdgoldfede@aol.com

>Answering a question to my own post! Other than the fact that the Rock simply couldn't afford a large fleet of 100% Bi-Levels, it was a question of simple economics. I think the secret to the longevity of the Standard Steel Cars was the simplicity of construction and battleship like production methods. They had a few dim lights thru the cars, but I guess the 1925 Rock Island thought this was ok for commuters. (CNW had nearly identical cars.) They had/have concrete floors to ease cleaning. They had drinking fountains but even as a kid, I don't remembering them being usable. The bathrooms were always locked as an Illinois law stated over 40 miles, you had to have a working bathroom. Rock MP at Joliet at the end of the Suburban district was something like 39.3. They were made of that heavy pre-war copper-bearing steel, and even for commuter coaches, seemed to get a new coat of paint every few years. Originally they had rattan seats, but were covered in vinyl during the 60's. Fairly simple steam heating system, and I don't remember them ever having a generator or batteries. Yes folks, the whole train was train-lined with bus jumpers from the RS-3 up front,or whatever was pulling them. They had very little under the floor to catch road salt, so even that didn't seem to affect them. No pesky diaphragms and fixed steps. That pretty much covers it. The Illinois Central Electrics were built much the same way. A modicum of comfort at a minimum of cost. Oh, and yes, they did frequently get used as overflow cars on mainline Rockets. Friends have told me they finally knew what it was like to ride a Wild West buckboard after riding a 2500 at 80mph on the back of #9 thorough Iowa!

It rode pretty

> Seems like these cars outlasted many others
> in commuter service and obviously many still
> remain in museum and tourist service. Seems
> that there are photos of them operating in
> the late 1970's and perhaps as late as 1980?
> Was it simply a case of them being too easy
> to maintain for suburban service compared to
> the newer cars or was it that the newer cars
> were better utilized on other assignments?
> Anyone have the inside scoop?

> David Farlow


sbs5cats@kc.rr.com