Les,

If I've found the right place in Google Street View, the car on the NWP is no longer there.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2469343,-122.4393759,3a,75y,41.75h,87.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDqETp-UnGFaItu-Dw-avaQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

In the picture it looks like there's a cantilever crossing warning. I found three of them in Schellville, and the south side of the Eighth St crossing looks like a good match.

-Mark

Mark -

Thanks for coming up with this. I agree that the spot where SP MW2417 and the other box car (SP 101157) were photographed, is no longer occupied. BUT, here's something interesting. I followed the road (perhaps 8th St E) out of town and found some equipment parked alongside the road. Looks like diesels and other stuff (although the trees hide a really good visual check in most spots), but at the far end appears to be the OTHER box car! Because IT exists and was moved, perhaps the MW2417 might have also been moved. It certainly does not look to be in the fenced in area in Schellville itself. There are some other tracks leaving Schellville both ways besides the line paralleling 8th St E. Might the car have been moved elsewhere? Probably not, but....!

Thanks again. This was really a great bit of detective work on your part.

BTW, I found this photo on the internet:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/photos/ ... aldson.jpg

I don't know if MW2417 was from the same series as this car, but the door sure looks like it could be the same. This was apparently a wood sided outside braced car that the Espee converted to steel, rather than being built with steel sides.

Les

Well, it seems I have stumbled across another possible outside braced wood boxcar that was rebuilt with steel sides. IF it still exists! Here's the photo:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1201018

The picture is about 10 years old. The car (and caboose) were located in East Point, Georgia at a place call the Wagon Works, or possibly, the Old Wagon Works. Haven't found any info on the internet, except that it seems that this might possibly be an old mill that someone was trying to lease out for office space. No photos of the building itself, and certainly none of L&N boxcar #22120. Is the car still there? Is it a converted wood car? Seems like it deserved preservation, but this may not have been the right place for that.

Any info appreciated!

Les

Google Streetview from September 2017, shows the cars still sitting there.
There is a caboose, outside braced boxcar, and a regular steel boxcar on the property.
They are located at Wagon Works, 1514 Cleveland Ave, East Point, GA.

NS 3322 -

Thanks for that great news. Now I guess, we'll have to hope someone with some knowledge of the L&N can give information as to whether #22120 was actually built with steel sides, or if it was a conversion from wood.


Les

SP’s B-50-15 class of boxcars were converted to steel sides, I think at random, and nowhere near the whole fleet. I believe that’s what we are seeing here with the car in California. None of the other classes of single sheathed cars on the SP were ever so converted unless I am remembering wrong.

As for the car lettered L&N, my money says it is not an L&N car at all, except perhaps by way of merger. I have no recollection of ever coming across any such cars on the steam era L&N. I don’t remember if L&N ever had nine panel truss cars, or only seven panel ARA style ones, but I also don’t recall any steel-rebuilt variations. This doesn’t mean I have just never seen it myself, or have forgotten, but there is another, easy explanation:

The nearby Georgia Railroad had a fleet of USRA cars and clones built mostly to spec—Murphy ends with the same rib pattern, nine-panel truss sides made of hat section steel—that they rebuilt with steel sides just like this one. I’ll look for photos, but I believe it’s a dead ringer. Many of these even wore a distinctive silver paint job with black roof and ends; occasionally, the right hand panel where the ladder was also appeared in black. Some had radial roofs and some peaked.

At any rate, if this car lasted on the Georgia through the L&N/Family Lines or CSX mergers, it may we’ll have picked up L&N lettering then, or received it at its display location in homage to its donor/last owner or even just a rail fan favorite. The cut down ladders suggest, though not conclusively, that it stayed in railroad service for quite awhile.

David -

Thanks for the info on the Southern Pacific's B-50-15 class of boxcars.

Your hint about L&N boxcar 22120 possibly really being an ex-Georgia Railroad car got me to checking. Here's what I found on George Elwood's website:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/grr/ga2623as.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/grr/ga19733jpa.jpg

Looks like you were right and the car there in East Point, GA is really an ex-Georgia car. The second photo shows the car still being used in interchange service while the first photo shows it apparently re-numbered, probably as a Maintenance of Way car. That is probably where L&N 22120 ended up, and the reason it remained around long enough to be preserved. Wonder how safe it, and the other two cars, currently are?

BTW, Dennis Storzek mentioned these Georgia Railroad conversions earlier in this thread and I asked Dennis if he knew of any survivors. Now we apparently know of at least one!

Les

Happened to be checking out the steamlocomotive.com website today and finally found some better photos of this previously mentioned surviving outside braced boxcar:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/17627398@N06/14275091760/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/17627398@N06/14275057499/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/17627398@N06/14275030719/

It APPEARS that this is also one of those wooden sided cars that got the wood replaced with steel sides. Not sure what the heritage of the car is. Might it be another Frisco car?

Les

Was doing some more research, only to find that my photos were being referenced! So I joined the group, mostly because I'm a bit of a novice at this and the help would be appreciated.

To answer a couple of questions - As I recall the car is either sitting on the ground or maybe some ties or such. No trucks. Its close enough to the edge of the road to get some good shots however.
Last time I was by there, the car was still sitting on the property. Since I live relatively close by now, I've found the property owner and am looking to get permission to enter the property to take photos and measurements.
Its only protection re: preservation has been the Texas weather (or lack of it).

This is certainly a case for rivet counting as the T&P car http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4266017 is nearly an exact match for most of the rivet patterns.

Jim -

Thanks very much for checking out this RS&P car, which very possibly is a former Texas & Pacific car. Glad you have contacted the owner of the property where the car currently resides. The car seems to be a good candidate for preservation at some location there in Texas. Especially if it turns out to actually be a former T&P car. If the car is far enough off the ground (such as on ties), you might be able to see if an original T&P car number might still be legible somewhere on the underframe. Another place where an original T&P number might exist is somewhere near the doors on the inside of the car, but of course, you would need access to the interior to determine that. Does the current property owner use the car for storage?

Les

It appears that its been used for some sort of storage, but it is on a fairly isolated part of the property. Haven't contacted the owner yet, but since the county has recently put their property records on-line I've gotten as far as getting name and address. So the next step is contact.

I've got photos of the boxcar stored at White Deer, PA taken in 2014; outside braced, but I can verify the sides are wood from my photos. I'm no class expert in PRR boxcars but if it is an X26, its devoid of all lettering and is still wood, although in pretty respectable condition.

I was curious if any of the Wellsville, Addison & Galeton outside braced boxcars were converted to steel sides (Sole Leather Line) but apparently not. During the 70's, those were the last major fleet of outside-braced cars in Class 1 service in the east and got more than their fair share of attention.

Randy -

I remember those Wellsville, Addison & Galeton outside braced boxcars. I don't know if any were converted to outside braced cars with steel sides, but I have never heard of a WA&G boxcar being preserved. They lasted quite a while into the "diesel era" and you would have thought that a museum would have tried to preserve one.

Earlier in this thread, a Southern Pacific Maintenance-of-Way boxcar was mentioned (SP 2417) that appeared to have been a converted outside braced car. That car apparently doesn't survive, but I just recently found a sister car that perhaps DID! This car is SP 5335 and is (was?) owned by the Pacific Northwest Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society. A photo from the chapters website:

http://www.pnwc-nrhs.org/images/boxcar_ ... 250056.jpg

According to the chapters explanation, this car WAS a former wood side outside braced boxcar that the SP converted to steel sides. The rust on the sides confirms the conversion. So...we have at least one other "rare bird"!

Les

Well, I just found two other outside braced, converted to steel side, boxcars preserved. Well....sort of! There is a new note on the "Ahead of the Torch" Facebook site about a closed scrap yard in Sand Springs, Oklahoma where two cars are an integral part of a steel maintenance building on the property. The cars are Sand Springs Railway Company numbers 121 and 122, originally built with wood sides and converted in 1949 to steel sides, keeping the outside bracing. From the photos, it appears to me that the two cars are mounted flush on the buildings concrete floor, sans underbody parts, couplers and trucks, but I could be wrong. According to the AOTT comments, the owner of the yard passed away and then his wife died and now the daughter is left with the yard and is not sure what to do with it. The car bodies of SS 121 and SS 122 looked to be in excellent condition due to being under roof, and someone might be able to eventually determine whether there is anything else remaining of the cars "hardware".

So, two more possible "rare birds". Maybe!

Les

Found a more recent photo (2018) of the boxcar in Victoria, Arkansas:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5059028

Alas, still no info as to its definite heritage. My guess is a Frisco conversion, but perhaps not.

Les