Can anyone advise what timber the wooden cabs of old Baldwin locomotives would have been constructed from? The particular locomotive under restoration is an 1891 slide valve prarie. Any adice apprciated.

e.c.tutt@xtra.co.nz

The cab on our Baldwin 4-6-0 built shortly after the turn of the century is composed primarily of clear pine and poplar. So is the cab of an Alco 4-6-2 of similar vintage. No idea how much of this material is original to their construction. The pine and poplar now available is a pale shadow of the quality of what would have been available back then in any case.

Perhaps an inquiry to Kyle Williams Wyatt at California State RR Museum would get you in touch with Vance Dickenson who built a new wooden cab for an older locomotive some years ago. Chris DeWitt at Nevada State RR Museum has done extensive work on them as well.

You are probably looking at a painted rather than varnished surface in 1891 and the choice of woods isn't likely to be as important if the grain isn't visible.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Jim Wilkie has spent an enourmous amount of time researching 19th century Baldwins. Jim , are you out there?

Rob

> Can anyone advise what timber the wooden
> cabs of old Baldwin locomotives would have
> been constructed from? The particular
> locomotive under restoration is an 1891
> slide valve prarie. Any adice apprciated.


rdavis@rypn.org

> The cab on our Baldwin 4-6-0 built shortly
> after the turn of the century is composed
> primarily of clear pine and poplar.

The card for our 1890 0-4-2T called for southern yellow pine which is fairly rot resistant. As we couldn't get that here on the west coast, her new cab was of poplar which was painted.

Tom

ironbartom@aol.com

I seem to recall that Dan Markoff reconsturcted the cab of his 3-gauge "EUREKA" with hardwood -- but, I cann't recall which one. He was replicating the original cab and using the same or similar wood. He had to get the wood from a supplier in the mid-west.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

Dear Eric:
A cheap industrial locomotive might have a cab framed out of yellow pine and trimmed with poplar. A better quality locomotive of that era would probably have a cab made of ash, a durable hardwood. Mahogany was a popular material for windows and doors.
If you have any of the original cab, even small fragments, the wood can be analyzed and identified (I usually use the University of Connecticut Forestry department).
I disagree with Dave, the species of wood is important regardless of of whether or not it is to be painted, first to be historically accurate and second because woods were selected for a reason, be it cost or durability, by the builders.
I agree that the quality of wood available today is no where near what it was years ago. Today, trees are harvested when they are relativly small in diameter, therefor they are mostly "sapwood" rather than "heartwood" (which is denser and hence more durable, rot resistant, etc.) I have seen brand new cabs rot out in a couple of years. I always treat new wood with penta or some such to prevent rot and haven't experienced any problems.
In my opinion, when doing a restoration we have no business second guessing the folks that designed and built the locomotive or whatever in the first place. It is our duty to use their chosen materials (even if they were "wrong").
Good luck with your project.
J. David


jdconrad@snet.net

I guess the point I didn't make well JD was that since we don't have the same high quality of the original wood readily available any longer to duplicate that used by the original builders, we may have to use a different species to get the same desireable features such as durability.
Also, I don't know what woods are readily available in New Zealand. Our Melbourne W5 tramcar has some gorgeous Aussie hardwood in the roof I can't identify but it would probably work like ash.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> I guess the point I didn't make well JD was
> that since we don't have the same high
> quality of the original wood readily
> available any longer to duplicate that used
> by the original builders,

Just had a neat article in the paper about folks that salvage wood from old buildings ... didn't look on the WWW for info tho'. If you have the money there are sources for "old growth" wood out there. We were given a pile of actual 2" x 15" planks that had been resawed out of beams from 1880's county fair buildings for our station floor that is some amazing stuff. We are spoiled living in Ohio at the edge of wonderful wood availabilty in a good selection of oaks ( red, white, burr, chesnut) as well as maple and poplar available kiln dried from custom mills. There is an "ace" hardware in Amish country that has a half-acre "basement" filled with the stuff. Steel, I can get from a standard supply warehouse, wood takes a little more planning and I like to store it for a few years to make sure of its stability.

lamontdc@adelphia.net

> I seem to recall that Dan Markoff
> reconsturcted the cab of his 3-gauge
> "EUREKA" with hardwood -- but, I
> cann't recall which one. He was replicating
> the original cab and using the same or
> similar wood. He had to get the wood from a
> supplier in the mid-west.

> Brian Norden

Brian I think it was Walnut that was used for that project. Dave W.

davewolven@msn.com

>A trip to your state ag univ. and talk to the forest dept. if you have any wood left from the cab. The primary woods that I show listed in the Baldwin specs that we have are Yellow Pine, Poplar, Ash, red & white oak, and mahogony for trim. Old growth lumber is available from a large number of suppliers and is where i have gotten good quality yellow pine. the other woods are available from a good supplier of hardwood lumber.

johndeck@cox.net