My late father told a story of when original museum members/boiler makers who worked at the 20th street PRR shops reflued MCQ #1 after it first arrived at the museum, they acquired never used K-4/L-1 flues from the PRR shop scrap pile and cut them in half. In all likelihood, those are the tubes in her today.

So here is a question. Growing up around the museum with #1 and #578 operating, I always heard them referred to as "flues," never "tubes." Today I mostly hear tubes. Perhaps the terminology of "flue" was PRR in nature?

Bob

Is this the B&O caboose that used to be at Toboso, OH just west of Zanesville? Sure looks like it. Had given up on it.

She was fixed up by the NYC shops and then had K4 and L1 flues put in her? So much history in such a little locomotive, that's amazing! Personally I've heard both used often but 'tubes' a lot more than 'flues'... I've never heard 'flues' used for western steam though, so maybe it was an eastern thing? Anyone else feel free to chime in.




C2208 here came from Reynoldsburg, just outside of the Columbus limits. I wasn't personally there for the move and am only going by outside sources, but it's definitely her in the photos I've seen geotagged there.

I did a quick search and yours in question is C2245, younger sister of ours. The most current photo I could find of her was in 2013 and still in Toboso, who knows what's become her now.

Here's a June, 1959 photo of Number 1 pushin' 578 around.

(Myers Machinery Movers do excellent work by the way.)

Unrelated question:

Why, Why, Why....

What's the reason... No, wait.

What could possibly be the reason/explanation the bell on Number 1 is missing?

John

If it wasn't removed for safe-keeping or was previously lost, they do have a tendency to disappear rather quickly. Almost like magic.

Eric hit the nail on the head. I've known 1 since I was a toddler (she's what got me into this whole thing, versus most people my age have another tank engine, theirs being blue) and she's never had any of her 'jewelry' - no whistle, no bell, and even no headlight until she went on loan.

From what I understand, everything off of all the equipment at ORM, both steam locomotives and all the streetcars and interurbans, was taken off and given to members for safe keeping. Unfortunately a lot of it never came back, and who knows where it wound up. Not to add to the rumor mill, but I've been told that 578's builders plate is sitting on someone's mantle while we only have a replica.

Both of 1's plates are in our possession, as well as the old fashioned oil burning headlight. Next time the big railroad memorabilia show rolls into Columbus, I'm going to see if I can find a bell that would fit her. For 578, two former volunteers obtained her original bell back in 2011-12 yet refused to tell us how they got it, so I'm unfortunately clueless on that. We also bought her replica PYLE marker lights and have her original headlight from the N&W as well, it just needs some work before it can be put back on.

Where I've worked, tubes were the small ones and bigger flues held the superheater elements.

I wonder if Larry Curran is still founding bells? www.bellsandbirmans.com

A long time ago there was a thread here where it was resolved that "flues" were big pipes with superheaters in them and all the other passages were "tubes".

In western rivers steamboat boilers, they are "flues", and in UK language, they are "flues".

In Danish, we do distinguish between the two, but the name is nearly the same.

Superheater flue: Overheder kedelrør

Ordinary tube: kedelrør

According to steamfitters with whom I have worked, 4" and above are flues, below are tubes. Since they are in the industry I'll take their word......mld

I got out some PRR diagrams. It appears the change from "tubes" to "flues" occurred as superheat came in.

For example, a D16d 4-4-0, a saturated 1890's express passenger engine with 80" drivers, had 310 1 7/8" diameter "tubes" while a D16sb 4-4-0, a superheated 1900's local passenger and light freight engine with 68" drivers, has 159 1 7/8" and 21 5 1/2" "flues." The D16sb heating surfaces also shows 253 sq ft of superheater "tubes."

Thus on PRR at least it appears they used the term "flues" for all the pipes carrying hot gasses from the firebox through the boiler to the smokebox, and "tubes" for the pipes carrying steam within the larger flues in order to superheat the steam.

I understand other roads might have used "flues" for the larger hot gas pipes and "tubes" for the smaller ones.

Of course we call the boilers "firetube" boilers, and replacement of the firetubes a "flue job." You say "tomayto", I say "tomahto"...

Phil Mulligan

Which is totally consistent with "fire tube" and "water tube" boilers. Flue is a description of usage; if the tube carries hot gasses, it's a flue, same as a chimney flue. But the material is still a tube, the tube mill doesn't know what you are going to use it for; they are going to sell you tubes.

Hello folks,

I realize how long it's been since I've updated this thread and I apologize for that. I, like everyone else at the museum, do have a life outside of our organization, and sadly it's been getting in the way of railroad related things more and more. But in the meantime, here's some updates as to what's happened since my last post.

Baltimore & Ohio caboose #C2208 is being stripped of her rotting wood pieces and all new wood panels have been purchased for one of her sides, with panels to follow for the second after the first is completed. Some of her north end was sanded down and repainted recently, and a couple volunteers have found reference photos of sister cars for her eventual painting (including a visit to cousin #C1939 at Washington Court House for shots of her B&O logo).


USAX #7178 (affectionately known as 'Roger') received an engine replacement at the beginning of this year thanks to our neighbors Silcott Railway Equipment. We had a few minor teething troubles with it to begin with but both engines on the locomotive are running fine now, in fact it ran just this past Sunday on our hourly train rides. The safety yellow handrails were also touched up this year as well.


Marble Cliff Quarries #1 has started receiving long due work after being off site for so many years. So far she has received a new stack cap (the original is long gone along with a lot of other items) and her cab roof was sanded, primed, and has received a first coat paint. We're hoping to give it a second coat soon, depending on volunteer availability. The original number plate was taken off of the smokebox door (along with the door itself) for safekeeping as it's a solid brass plate and is an easy target for thieves. Recently we had someone take the plate to make some replicas of it for going back onto the locomotive later this year (with the door too, of course). Eventual sheet metal replacement on places like the smokebox and cab is planned, one of our younger volunteers is currently taking welding classes at a local college and has plenty of experience to get on #1 and other pieces!


Other things include:

- New window frames are in the process of being made for Columbus Streetcar #703. We have not gotten nearly as much into working on the car as we hoped, but again, we've all got lives outside of the museum (especially those with jobs and families to support). We are still raising funds for the eventual work on the car.

- Norfolk & Western #578's cab was opened up for visitors on Sundays and has been a huge hit with them. We built a platform from Pennsy RPO #6510 into the cab making it a lot safer to access for younger children and those that can't climb as easily as others. Her smokebox door was also repainted as well.

- OPS #64 and USAX #7178 are still our primary sources of motive power for operations, with C&SOE #2 being saved as backup or rescue power due to a grounding issue. She still runs, just with extra precautions. She still serves us well on Sundays by being an absolute favorite for the kids (and some adults) to ring her bell.

So to wrap up, we're still here, and we're still alive and kicking despite the many rumors and bad mouthing still being spread about us. (Amazing how many people think we don't "deserve" #578 still, imagine how great she'd look if all the naysayers came out to work on her!) We could use more volunteers as every other museum out there could too, but our current group is dedicated to keep us going no matter what we face. We have a new display of sorts coming in this weekend that will both educate and entertain our visitors when it's finished, and help fill a bit of a gap we're lacking in when it comes to showcasing steam, electric and diesel power.

As always, if anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to answer them. Thanks for reading!

The Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society commissioned a Paint Committee a few years ago which identified accurate paint and lettering colors for multiple eras throughout the railroads existence. One of the reasons this was done was to share with restorers of full-size equipment. They had the approved paint samples spectrographically examined so that they could get an exact Munsell number which is a universal paint code.

So, I would encourage you to contact the PRRT&HS, specifically Bruce Smith to hep you out with anything needed for the repainting of the PRR RPO.

The Munsell numbers from PRRHTS are included in the color reference that can be accessed via the sticky. They we're added in an update a while back.

I also had some PRR structure color chips scanned at Home Depot for the future painting of the Orrville Union Depot to the correct colors. Those will be added to the list in a future update.

As always, if anyone has paint mixed to match any color for any road, either rolling or stationary things, please let me know the details so I can add it to the list as modern equivalents.

To my knowledge Bruce Smith is still in Auburn, AL (at the School of Veterinary Medicine) and perhaps the easiest way to reach him and get information is via the PRR list on groups.io (ported there from Yahoo Groups during the great /neo/ meltdown).

The email address I get from the group is PRR@PRR.groups.io although I'm not sure of the exact current procedure you'd use to join.