Get two 20 ton jacks, jack up under the journals of the unpowered axle 1/4" ,turn by hand or bar til lined up .

Here's what bothers me... again assuming the two photos were taken at the same time: From the perspective of the first photo, you'd have to turn the outside axle counterclockwise to align it with the inside axle. If you were to walk around to the other side, as the second photo illustrates, that counterclockwise motion of the outside axle would be viewed as a clockwise motion from that side. However... for alignment, you'd need counterclockwise movement on that side as well. Something isn't adding up.

Edit: I sketched it out... mainly because I couldn't sleep... ha! Green = Aligned Position, Red = Current Deviated Position


Of course, it's possible the axle was moved between photos. hytwr1 - Can you please clarify?

I HAVE heard of these things losing time due to issues with the key. It's the weakest link when things go awry.

hytwr1 - I captured a couple images from my GE 45 ton locomotive manual. This one is from 1947, the same year your locomotive was built:





Good luck!

Really nice photo editing and explanation by the way.

You probably don't even have to jack the misaligned axle into the air. Just chock the other truck or apply its brakes, then block two jacks under the counterweight and throw of the axle that's most convenient to turn (cushioned by hardwood), and jack until the axle spins.

Aarne Frobom
Spin City, Michigan

Thanks for all the feedback.

I know the axles wont turn with the rods connected out of phase on the side the way it was. The pins are at 60" centers and we were trying to find a point where both sides would line up. We left it that way after playing around for about an hour with a crane holding the loco up. $$$

Anyway, none of the axles were turned between photos.

The keys are all there.

There was a Harbor Rail guy helping us try to set them while the crane was there. He mentioned that when DTE had the unit a traction motor was replaced. He also told me they used to start both engines and run them long enough to get air up, then shut one down and let that truck free wheel. That made me wonder if some sort of gear timing is off. Is the drive axle solid or split with a gear box?

I went back out last night and set the engineer's side (the one that looks closest to correct timing). Turned one axle about 2 inches. Ran out of light to play with trying to set the other side.

I will poke around on it some more as I get time and let you all know how it comes out.

Joe, I can relate to the inability to sleep. LOL

Bill

Just to get an unlikely possibility out of the way: Was the idler axle on the affected truck removed at any point during shipping or erection? If the two sides weren't in precise quarter, that might result in what looks like a 2X derangement with the idler rotated to where one rod would fit on...

The 'gear' issue is something of a red herring. All the guy meant was that, to save fuel, one of the two diesel motors would be shut down after pumping down, and the truck associated with that motor (unpowered with its corresponding engine and generator off) would just roll along. That tells us there is no particular problem moving the locomotive with the gears and TM engaged, or using a pinch bar or other means as described to position the engine and truck in question so one of the powered axle's crankpins is perfectly vertical (use a plumb line and sight carefully over a cross level). Then go to the other side and check quarter by any applicable means, e.g. projected laser level. Lather, rinse, repeat for the idler axle.

Nope. Nothing removed by us. Handbrake was set to keep things from moving around too.

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Not editing the original post, which made little sense in English: what I was wondering was whether the idler axle had been swapped end-for-end somewhere in the process.

Further confirmation requested: when during the course of the move were the rods taken down, and were all four of them on completely before the moving began?

I am presuming that someone checked all four rods for length, and they are all consistent.

As discussed ad nauseam in model railroad fora, there will be no problem either in fitting the rods or in getting them to 'excurse' 360 degrees without binding if the cranks are even substantially out of 90-degree quarter. The key is that the quarter has to be precisely the same angle on both cranks, which is manifestly NOT what I see in the comparison between right and left sides of the affected truck. So the next step is to determine what the angle is between cranks on each axle, and then to decide how to correct one of them (probably the one further out of quarter, or the one on the easily-removed idler axle). I am thinking you might get one of these cranks off with a portable hydraulic ram setup, but getting it back on would be not so easy...

Sorry my original post made no sense to you.

Nothing was removed for transport. The rods we are trying to install were pulled long ago and were laying on the deck.

The problem isn't with the rods. It is with the orientation of the pins. If the keys aren't sheared then the only other explanation is that an axle at sometime was dropped out and then reinstalled end for end or 180 degrees from original position. Have you ever seem the rods on the unit functioning. If not then you received the unit with the rods off and who knows what some one did before you got it. The pins don't necessarily have to be 90 degrees apart, they have to be the same angle apart be that 89 degrees or 91 degrees.

You need to get the axle with the traction motor in a set position. Move the locomotive so the counter weight on the powered axle is straight down. Chock the wheels on this axle.

Next, jack up the end of the truck with the unpowered axle. Because of the counter-weights, the axle will rotate, but the counter weights being 90 degrees off will not settle straight down like you have the powered axle sitting and chocked.

You can then wrap a chain or strap around the unpowered axle and turn it into position to get the rod on.

Before putting the rod on one side, check the position of the crankpins on the other side. If they then are not in the proper position, then you have a problem.

If all they did was change a traction motor, it is not necessary to remove the axle, gearbox and traction motor set from the truck. We recently changed out a traction motor with the axle remaining in the truck, but the truck was out from under the locomotive. The axle is solid and runs through the gearbox.

After you have aligned the crankpins on one side, like I stated and the other side does not align, then someone may have removed this truck and had both axles out of the truck and reversed the idler axle. If the axle was turned 180 degrees, because someone did not know or mark the proper position, it is never going to work.


Looking at your photos: Do both wheel sets have the same tread thickness?

Wheels in GE 45/50 ton locomotives with side rods or chain drive are to have wheels of the same tread thickness on the same truck. These wheels do get worn and do not match because of curve wear to the flanges ( which sometimes are trued with a truing shoe ) and brake shoe wear to the wheels.

On the chain drive units, the difference in wheel tread thickness can wear the sprocket teeth and can even rip the teeth off. This can also damage units with side rods, causing bearing wear and even breaking side rods.

Not your original post, MY original post (in response) which did not make the sense I thought it did when I re-read it a few minutes later.

Your original request for information, and subsequent responses for more information, are all fine. And I think you came to the right community.

Is this not precisely what he said he was getting in his original post -- he could get the rod on one side, but then it was an inch off on the other?

I still think he should check all four of the rods, quickly, to ensure they have the same length between eyes. That shouldn't take long, and while I'd agree it's highly unlikely the rods were modified (or damaged) it's an easy check.

I'd recommend that he work only with the idler axle, not the powered one, if the quartering is actually 'off' between the two wheelsets. There should be less mechanical difficulty getting it in and out of the truck to operate on it, or if as I speculated the axle has been reversed to where quartering not to precise 90 degrees isn't matching any more.

If the keys all appear reasonably intact and not sheared or slipped on inspection, which I think he said he'd checked, I'd be tempted to flip the idler axle as a first step. (His 'second step' will be to pull one of the cranks off and then re-install it, making an offset key as required, so it is in precisely the same quarter as the powered axle presently is -- assuming as I do that the two rods are the same length between eyes -- so he won't be wasting anything by operating on the axle or measuring quarter to confirm mathematically that this is the problem.)

Some of you can give him correct advice about how to pull one of these cranks, check and recondition the shaft and seat, make the key with the right offset, and arrange to press the crank back to the right depth all while the axle is in the truck and on the locomotive. I'm sure to miss or overlook some critical detail. But I think I'd set up with the rod on the 'far' set of cranks, and line up for the installing press with some kind of gauge or jig made up (or even the rod itself with suitable lateral extension) so that only the one crank needs to be operated on.

I would take a wire wheel to all four axle ends and verify for a fact that the keyways are still in alignment. In the second photo on the first page of this thread, the axle on the right side looks to have a bit of a gap/line between the axle and the counterweight. Looks like that one may have moved to cause that gap. Check it out closely.

That is also the counterweight that appears to be out of phase with the two on the other side.