Rock Island E-Units to be part of steam excursion event

Jdelhaye · **Posted:** Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:25 pm

Nova55 wrote:

I imagine these have 567's, not 567A's. Both of which some parts are getting scarce for. If they were mine and had a decent excursion career planned, I would look into C blocks. For a twice a year run, keep whats in it.

Its been reported by Hatch & Kirk even some early 645 parts are starting to get hard to come by for good cores, resulting in the need to make brand new things as opposed to rebuilds.

The E6 (630) would have had A series engines when new, and the E8 (952) would have had B series.

B, C or D series pistons, rods and rings could be installed in either of them, as well as B series cylinder liners in the A engines.

An AC or BC conversion would be possible as well, allowing the use of C series power assemblies.

Jeff

Nova55 · **Joined:** Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm **Posts:** 597

According to Preston Cooks 567 page, 567A did not start until the E7. E6 would have a straight 567 (U/V block), unless of course its been upgraded over the years.

I would be curious to know just how many pre-A block 567's are still around.

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 841

Anyone who thinks either of these units have not been through multiple engine change-outs and upgrades over their long service careers has to be mistaken.

CREEPING DEATH · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm **Posts:** 275

PMC wrote:

The owner was considering making the units into "E-38s", i.e. installing unturbocharged 16-645s, as UP did with their executive Es. I really hope the owner gave up on that idea.

I think UP spent close to $2 Million each on those, they basically cut the ends off their existing E-units and welded them to newly fabricated center sections, with great care taken to preserve their original appearance. I'm not sure why they went to the trouble, they could have easily used MP15/GP15 guts - and they have plenty of those around - without the radical surgery.

CD

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 841

CREEPING DEATH wrote:

PMC wrote:

The owner was considering making the units into "E-38s", i.e. installing unturbocharged 16-645s, as UP did with their executive Es. I really hope the owner gave up on that idea.

I think UP spent close to $2 Million each on those, they basically cut the ends off their existing E-units and welded them to newly fabricated center sections, with great care taken to preserve their original appearance. I'm not sure why they went to the trouble, they could have easily used MP15/GP15 guts - and they have plenty of those around - without the radical surgery.

CD

It's amazing what some people can come up with. This is kind of like the "expert" in Iowa who proclaimed the UP units would break apart in the middle on their first trip. That was, what, 26 years ago?

Having been at VMV while the project was underway and having seen the work orders and paperwork involved, I can say authoritatively that you have overestimated the cost by around 300%, as the total amount for all 3 together was just under $2 million.

These locomotives were not "cut in two" in any way. The center section of the center sills was not replaced, but was modified to accept the single 16-cylinder engine (with large oil pan), AR10 main alternator and air compressor. One GP38-2 electrical cabinet was installed in each unit. Extended range dynamic brakes were installed, as were modern control stands, etc. New radiators and rebuilt cooling fans were installed, along with new grid blowers.

Removed were 4 12-567 engines, 4 DC main generators 4 old electrical cabinets, 4 air compressors, 2 old control stands, and the traction motors were all replaced with D78 motors. The locomotives were also set up for self-load testing.

This work had not been undertaken lightly and several scenarios were considered before the work was done. For example, replacing the 2 12V-567s with 2 12-645 turbo power plants, such as used in the GP39-2. This however would have required 2 electrical cabinets in each unit, the sound would have been totally different, and there would have had to be a raised section of the carbody roof to accomodate the turbochargers.
Having 4,600 hp on 4 powered axles would have also created adhesion issues.

If it were being done today, they probably would use the same power plant and electricals as the GP32ECO. Yes, there would still be a bump in the roofline.

Even though UP seems to have no problem with spending $10-$12 million+ on a single steam locomotive restoration, there is little likelihood that any further major work will be done on their 3 E units.

CREEPING DEATH · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm **Posts:** 275

Lincoln Penn wrote:

It's amazing what some people can come up with. This is kind of like the "expert" in Iowa who proclaimed the UP units would break apart in the middle on their first trip. That was, what, 26 years ago?

Having been at VMV while the project was underway and having seen the work orders and paperwork involved, I can say authoritatively that you have overestimated the cost by around 300%, as the total amount for all 3 together was just under $2 million.

These locomotives were not "cut in two" in any way. The center section of the center sills was not replaced, but was modified to accept the single 16-cylinder engine (with large oil pan), AR10 main alternator and air compressor. One GP38-2 electrical cabinet was installed in each unit. Extended range dynamic brakes were installed, as were modern control stands, etc. New radiators and rebuilt cooling fans were installed, along with new grid blowers.

Removed were 4 12-567 engines, 4 DC main generators 4 old electrical cabinets, 4 air compressors, 2 old control stands, and the traction motors were all replaced with D78 motors. The locomotives were also set up for self-load testing.

This work had not been undertaken lightly and several scenarios were considered before the work was done. For example, replacing the 2 12V-567s with 2 12-645 turbo power plants, such as used in the GP39-2. This however would have required 2 electrical cabinets in each unit, the sound would have been totally different, and there would have had to be a raised section of the carbody roof to accomodate the turbochargers.
Having 4,600 hp on 4 powered axles would have also created adhesion issues.

If it were being done today, they probably would use the same power plant and electricals as the GP32ECO. Yes, there would still be a bump in the roofline.

Even though UP seems to have no problem with spending $10-$12 million+ on a single steam locomotive restoration, there is little likelihood that any further major work will be done on their 3 E units.

I will defer to your vast first-hand knowledge, I was repeated what I'd read elsewhere from other generally-reliable sources such as http://utahrails.net/up/up-e8-e9.php#unitsrebuilt

Quote:

To accommodate a single Model 645 2000 HP engine replacing two Model 567 1200 HP engines, structural changes involved cutting out the center section of the main existing main frame and installing larger, heavier main frame members, the same as on a GP or SD unit. This also allowed the creation of a sump for the new engine and AR10 to sit in (and allowed the use of a high-capacity oil pan), which keeps all fluids that might get spilled or leak contained, where they are routed to the retention tank which was built into one end of the fuel tank.

CD

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1799

Did this end up falling through? I've been searching all over instagram and have seen pics of the Metra Rock Island Heritage unit but no E's to be found.

Either way, looks like 765 had a great weekend. Wish I could have gone up this year, last year was a lot of fun.

nathansixchime · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm **Posts:** 948

Yes, unfortunately this was mothballed as the units did not pass the additional inspections by the subsequent interchanging railroads and the issues noted had not surfaced earlier. Since cancelling the photo session only affected 60 people, we did not issue a release lest there be confusion over the Joliet Rocket event as a whole and instead we refunded tickets and notified those folks immediately. I had posted an update to TrainOrders but spaced doing so here. Would have been the cherry on top after months of additional work, but the show went on...

filmteknik · **Posted:** Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:01 am

I'm surprised they didn't use the Metra RI unit on the train.

I believe the MP36 used is one that has been rebuilt with a separate genset for HEP. Was the prime mover shut down for the inbound runs?

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1799

Thanks for the reply Kelly. Sorry it didn't work out for you guys but I agree that was smart thinking to not announce it to the public and create confusion.

I had already agreed to work this weekend when the E-units were announced and I was kicking myself, this makes missing out on this trip a little less painful... even though I would have loved to ride in the Zephyr cars on their last mainline outing. :(