I’ve been silently watching Rypn for the past few years now. Most of the time I visit and I see good discussion in most topics. Other topics that are much more controversial, such as the 5361 topic and the Toronto Roundhouse Topic seem to get pretty hostile at times. Some topics are even pointless, like the Cuyahoga Valley acquiring the CZ cars when there was already a topic on the acquisition a few days before. With this I don’t think I can stay silent much longer.

Internet discussion isn’t always the most friendly and I get that, but we’re all here for the same reason: Rail preservation. The thread is for discussion of good questions, comments, and news related to rail preservation and how so solve problems in rail preservation. Discussion and disagreement is perfectly alright but that’s no excuse for attacks on people or insults or name calling. Resorting to those tactics makes you the lower person and gives the forum a bad reputation. I don’t think a single one of you guys gets up in the morning and says “god I can’t wait to get on the forums today and argue.” but in some cases this seriously gets out of hand. I do believe moderation isn’t a problem here because topics can be locked and usually are locked if they get out of hand, and that’s fine. The problem is the people who can’t contain themselves to be decent. Act like it’s a convention and each topic is a certain booth. This isn’t and shouldn't be a playground for releasing anger

As for irrelevant topics, I think you know who you are. I get it there are questions and you have the right to ask them. But this isn’t the place to ask a “what do you think” question. Leave that for Facebook and don’t create repeat topics on the same thing. This is rail preservation so it doesn’t matter who gets the equipment unless they destroy or mothball it. I think we’d all rather see a 1920 switcher dressed with a cow catcher, a diamond smokestack and a red cab than no switcher at all. We all know it’s not correct but it is what it is. 99% of the world doesn’t know the difference. Just be happy that the equipment exists and is in hands that you know will care for it, even if it isn’t going to be historically correct. And if it’s not in good hands, we discuss and try to solve it. An example of this would be with 503 and how the rail preservation community came together as one and accomplished what we needed.

Attitude among a certain few people needs to change. For those who can’t help throwing insults at people out of spite, there’s nothing for you here. Your presence will not be welcome if you resort to a below the belt hit, and isn’t welcome for the guys who log on here to see news in rail preservation, or maybe logging in to give valuable information to people with really good questions. for those who sometimes post irrelevant material, just look around at all of the other topics and see what they do, and think twice about posting.

As for the moderators, do whatever you want with this topic, doesn’t matter to me. I’m
glad to get this off my chest and I hope I’m speaking for at least a majority of people here. I’m not here for the arguments and I’m sure most of the rest of you aren’t here for them either.

Ditto!
Life's too short to be angry at people and also to worry about your own hurt feelings ,get past it ,move on, live a stress free life as best you can.

In general I agree.

However, I disagree on your last point, we need to be able to discuss the negatives in rail preservation. We should be able to express our dissapointment when equipment ends up in odd places or odd paint schemes.

We as moderators do our best to limit the personal attacks and hostility that can sometimes pop up. But many of us have real jobs and can't continuously monitor the site and it doesn't take very long for a disgruntled member to go on a rant and escalate it before any of us see what is going on. This is just the reality of the Internet. The occasional discussion that goes off the rails in no way diminishes the good nuts and bolts discussions that can occur simultaneously.

A good way to minimize the fluff posts is to start a discussion about an interesting topic and to let those fluff posts drop off the first page. I have been moving off topic posts to Classifieds or Railfanning as necessary and merging topics that are redundant.

Yes we all should continue to elevate the level of discussion here and I think that things have improved over the past several months. The moderators will continue to guide the forum in that direction to the best of our abilities.

The last blowup re-Toronto was unfortunate. If all those posts, on both sides, could have just lowered the tension in their word choice and maybe cut 10% of the more sensitive statements, they would have been just fine. There was a lot of interesting information written. Some of which I already knew, but which others may not have known.

I would like to see the moderators lock (and actually remove) threads a lot more quickly. Whenever somebody goes on a rant where they may be piling on some operation simply because they don't like them (like Mr. Tweetsie 12) then pull it...and pull it fast.
And similarly when somebody comes on board to brag on themselves (like Iowa Pacific did) cut them off too. They can pay for advertising if they want it.
Similarly I do not understand the desire to pry into the matters of privatly owned equipment and fascilities. I know a lot of equipment owners and their #1 problem is people nosing into their affairs. If Cuyahoga Valley RR buys some nice old cars...that is not anybody elses worry. Leave them alone (unless they ask for your help). Same with the movement of privatly owned equipment...secret is best.
I would think the issues that RYPN should address...what kind of paint can I use? Or...where can I buy lightbulbs? Or what color was the 2121 painted when delivered. If you want to go for idle gossip and grandstanding...get a Facebook page. People on FB will give you instant feedback.
T7

Moderators correct me if I'm wrong, but as a discusion board on rail preservation, shouldn't discussion on preservation, both good and bad, be welcome an encouraged?

We need to be able to point out when things are inaccurate, that's how we learn. In the past several years I've seen many operation switch back to historically acurrate paint... Maybe that's because some younger railfans are coming into position and able to make a difference.

As I have said before, we as a preservation community need to be able to discuss the negatives. It's how we learn!

I think this is an interesting thread. Before I joined the forum a month or so ago, I was a long time "lurker" and reader of it. Several of these threads pop up again and again. Some readers want to make this place more than what it is.

Let us remember that RYPN is a FREE forum, and the moderators are VOLUNTEERS. Granddaddy always said that you get what you pay for. With this site, we get quite a bit for the cost and what the moderators are paid.

Is there uneven moderation? Sure. The "Disagreement over steam repairs" thread was locked by a moderator who even stated there had been no rules violation. After it was locked, several PMs were sent to me indicating that that particular moderator is good friends with the owner of the company that is the target of the #14 lawsuit. I guess it helps to have friends, but it's a free forum, so we get what we pay for.

For years, moderators wouldn't tolerate personal attacks. Now, the most active moderator has somewhat relaxed the policy. Some personal attacks, from some people are allowed. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with who is being attacked, who is doing the attacking, and if the moderator likes/dislikes either of those groups. Unfair? Problematic? Sure, but it's a free forum with volunteer moderators. We get what we pay for.

RYPN is probably the best place to uncritically promote your business or organization and its projects. If you don't want scrutiny, just bemoan it as a "personal attack" and if you are a friend of there moderators, the criticism is wiped clean.

Forums are becoming less and less used by a lot of people, due to changes in technology and how people use the internet. I'm sure RYPN is headed that way, and I doubt a banning people, unbanning people, or changing the moderators can help. Let's enjoy the site for what it is.

The discussion of the negatives is definitely valuable. We can all learn from mistakes someone else makes. But only if done without bashing or grandstanding. Finger pointing and ranting sets off my BS detector, thus I pay no further attention and consider it a waste of time, electrons and disk space, nerd that I am.

And let us not forget, this is a private site that you join, agree to abide by the rules and first amendment rights do not really extend here (now ducking and hiding under my desk for just in case).

The problem: One person's "rant" is usually another's "constructive criticism," and vice versa. Like the difference between erotic art and pornography, "you know it when you see it." The "truth," such as it is, often lies somewhere in between, even with "legends" like the Strasburg, Ross Rowland, Durango & Silverton, etc.


Hey, congratulations. You've just killed off the "Latest From the Strasburg Shops" posts, admittedly a "fan favorite" here.
At an extreme, I could stretch this out to those posts where craftsmen or shop forces ask if anyone else has a need for seat hardware or odd flue diameters they're trying to get bulk pricing on.


Many of these "privately owned facilities" not only cater to the public and/or represent a "public face" of rail preservation, but in many cases derive benefits from the public coffers, directly or indirectly through tax exemptions, public works considerations, etc.

In one of my other lines of trade: If a microbrewery is producing utterly terrible swill AND they're attempting to pass themselves off as wonderful stuff AND they're coaxing tour operators to bypass the friendly neighborhood brewpub producing good beer so they can inflict their swill on unsuspecting hordes that will never touch craft beer again as a result, then, hell, yes, other craft beer makers have a right to call them out on their practices publicly. (Sadly, my example is based on a real-life example that might have been arsoned had it not been in a historic building....)


It would be if, hypothetically, I were a Western Pacific- or Burlington-centric museum that had been quietly raising funds to buy them for preservation..........


All of the examples you cite sound exactly like the multitude of rail modeling forums/lists full of people discussing the mundane-to-the-point-of-tedium. (I've only been exposed to them as various lists were consolidated together so I now have to wade through "what Floquil paint matches XY&Z Persimmon Red?" and the like to see actual historical information.)

Whether we like it or not, the stuff you label "idle gossip and grandstanding" is as critical to actual successful preservation efforts as it is annoying at times. I would dare to say that some of the recent successes announced in the past week, and some of the successes I've been involved in, started out as what would have easily dismissed as "trash talk" or "gossip." For example, that "piece of Conrail trash" that was at the Va. Museum of Transportation's storage sidings........

In online discussion, the amount of moderation and "censorship" of on-topic material (as opposed to posts about making money from home stuffing envelopes, exceedingly polite Nigerians, etc.) is typically inversely proportional to the forum's actual utility and popularity.

Ok, I'm not directly involved in preservation, but I support it. Wouldn't it be better if everyone posted their disagreements as questions such as "wouldn't it be better if" or "it would be nice if" instead of "those idiots don't know what their doing" or " what kind or dummies would paint it that color"
Just a thought.

A teacher once told me " If you think you know everything about your trade than quit before you kill someone."
No one can never know it all!

Mike Nix

When it comes to all of the drama on RYPN, I've tried to stay out of it for the most part. But, I have been watching what's going on and I think that it would be a good idea to require everyone to read the Interchange Guidelines or even come up with a completely new set of rules for posting on the Interchange.

If the moderators here want to do that or another idea, I would be happy to help. For me, RYPN has been a very helpful place to learn and share new information and get my name heard around the community, helping me reach my goal of making a career out of railroad preservation. I understand the respectful debates, but it saddens me to see anything worse than that here because the Interchange is not the place for it.

Thomas

The guidelines are sufficient. Everyone should read them carefully. They are not strictly enforced by the volunteer moderators nor adhered to by all members. A lot of latitude is granted here at RyPN. We are all equals.

There is a fine balance to be struck. Strict enforcement of the guidelines may make the forum feel too overly regulated and could have the effect of stifling discussion. Lax enforcement could result in the forum becoming too unruly.

And what I may feel to be acceptable others may not and what I may feel is over the line still others may disagree with.

Yes a lot of latitude is granted here and I hope we have struck the right balance between order and chaos.

Rick,
I think you’ve done a good job here. I appreciate your time and efforts as a moderator and a contributor.