What in the hell is wrong with these so-called preservationists who think F units are fine but F40s are modern trash?

It's been longer since the F40 was first introduced into service than almost the entire production life of F units up to that point. And the F40 was a much greater success in passenger service for many years. I may not like the styling as much as the 'classic' EMD bulldog nose, let alone slant nose, but as noted it's better than most hood units on a passenger consist. And likely easier to keep running than a rebuilt FPA4 or whatever, and I suspect cheaper to acquire.

So because I disagree with you that makes me a "so-called preservationist"? Would be nice to not be called names and cursed at just for having an opinion.

I would rather see WM painted ALCO's pull that train. Would be amazing to see and photograph. Seems like a reasonable wish from a preservationist.

You know what I'd rather see?

I'd rather see ANY FREAKIN' MOTIVE POWER whatsoever on that railroad that can reliably, dependably get the advertised trains up the mountain and back, and get that operation back in the black and in the good graces of the public, WITHOUT the attendant controversies that have seemingly constantly dogged and bedevilled this poor operation from Day One!

You want WM-painted Alcos on that line? Convince Delaware-Lackawanna or the Western NY and Pennsylvania to take over the motive power department. I think they're smart enough to keep their distance.

But at this point, we need the railroad and its troubles to stop tarnishing the reputation of the rail excursion/preservation industry. And if that takes a reliable low-geared F40PH, so be it.

And as the guy who first proposed the likes of an "F40PH Preservation Society" in a Trains Magazine essay that was directly credited with instigating the preservation of three Amtrak locomotives........ well, I don't call someone names for having a different (though ill-informed) opinion...........

You've been published in Trains quite a bit since 1984. I always thought your name here seemed familiar, but wasn't quite sure why. :)

Unfortunately, you the preservationist are not the target market for the WMSR (or any tourist railroad).
And the target market does not know the difference between an F40 and a FPA4, nor do they care.
The casual visitor will be happy as long as there is a "cart" to ride in, some sort of scenic or historic draw, the train is on time, and the "conductor is driving the train."

Hypothetically, let's say the WMSR operated ALCO's. Would you ride the train or just photograph the train?

I would ride. Both times I've been to the WM I rode. But this isn't about me is it?

Who is the target market for WM? If their target market is people who don't care about motive power why are they working on steam?

Has the WM ridership stayed the same since they dropped steam?

.

Thanks for that Robert J. Glad to know the desire to have more appropriate units is there. If all goes well, maybe that can happen and the f-40 can be a good, powerful, backup as needed. Or maybe be the normal operation and the alcos be saved for special events.

Crescent-Zephyr - WMSR has not operated Alcos since the GP30's were acquired in the mid or late 1990's. Just wanted to make that clear as it seems you have the impression they still have Alcos on the property which is not the case. I did say "In the past WMSR had Alco diesels" which unfortunately does not carry thru to the present day.

At present they only have the two GP30's and the "new" F40 on the diesel side. There's also a Plymouth 60-ton for moving equipment and doing light switching. For steam 1309 is still being rebuilt and 734 is out of service.

The Alcos moved on to other operations. I know the ex-CNW RSD5 is now in the collection of the Illinois Railway Museum (after a stint on the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic in Ohio) where it still operates at times wearing a older 1950's style CNW paint job. The B&O FPA4 ended up on the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic near Akron, OH after use in Pennsylvania on a tourist line and still is in use. I don't know where the ex-B&M RS3 (may have gone to Owosso, MI and repainted to NYC then went to where?) or the other FPA4 ended up.

Oh yes I understood. I was going with

"WMSR would have liked an F-unit but the price/condition of available candidates were not in line with WMSR's budget per a conversation I had with their General Manager back in February 2018."

That implies that the desire is their, it just doesn't make financial sense currently.

The Alcos moved on to other operations. I know the ex-CNW RSD5 is now in the collection of the Illinois Railway Museum (after a stint on the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic in Ohio) where it still operates at times wearing a older 1950's style CNW paint job. The B&O FPA4 ended up on the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic near Akron, OH after use in Pennsylvania on a tourist line and still is in use. I don't know where the ex-B&M RS3 (may have gone to Owosso, MI and repainted to NYC then went to where?) or the other FPA4 ended up.[/quote]

FPA4s #6771 and #6780 are at the Cuyahoga Valley

FPA4 #6793 is at the Grand Canyon

The RS3 B&M #1508 / D&H #4075 is at the Railroad Museum of New England

RSD5 #1689 is at IRM.

That particular B&M RS3 #1508 currently resides at the Railroad Museum of New England awaiting restoration. I imagine it couldn't be too much trouble for the WMSR to temporarily lease #195 from the B&O museum if they truly want an authentic WM Alco. If I can remember correctly Gerald Altizer did at one time lease his WM FA-2 to the Durbin operation perhaps an agreement can be found there. Then there's also that other FA-2 owned by the Western Maryland Historical Society under wraps. I'm sure if Cumberland really wanted an Alco they would easily get one certainly.

Cameron

"I imagine it couldn't be too much trouble for the WMSR to temporarily lease #195 from the B&O museum if they truly want an authentic WM Alco. If I can remember correctly Gerald Altizer did at one time lease his WM FA-2 to the Durbin operation perhaps an agreement can be found there. Then there's also that other FA-2 owned by the Western Maryland Historical Society under wraps. I'm sure if Cumberland really wanted an Alco they would easily get one certainly.

Cameron[/quote]

The WM RS3 #195 has a reported seized prime mover.... The GCK FA2 is nothing more than an empty carbody, nowhere close to being a locomotive. Both options would require cubic yards of money and man hours to make operable again. Peak season is approaching and the WMSR needed a locomotive, not another project.....

Tim W.

Wow thanks for the right up! I learned a lot from this paragraph.

I think I know where there is an FL-9 available...