Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Move

soups · **Joined:** Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:26 am **Posts:** 57

The City is going to be very willing to allow access to owners. They have been inundated with claims on equipment, some legit and some fraudulent. They are having to dedicate time and resources to vet each entity and transaction.

Our equipment claim (KSHC) was relatively easy for them to vet because we helped with moving 587 (so we were already a known entity), have bills of sale which were executed before the eviction notice, and our cars were basically first in a line of equipment, making it the easiest to be removed.

Though it's easy to get caught up on the soap opera that is "ITM vs the City", we maintained a neutral position and dealt with city administrators tactfully and magnanimously. We did retain counsel in order to navigate the murky waters early on, but once our claim to the equipment was "legitimized" by the city, we provided a certificate of insurance and signed an affidavit and we were good to go.

For those of you who have ownership claims for equipment on site, you should prepare yourselves for providing proper paperwork, as well as insurance that can name the city of Noblesville as additionally insured on your policy, and you are likely to get your equipment out.

6-18003 · **Joined:** Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am **Posts:** 727

Is there a current list of what's left, including equipment/parts, etc?

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2612

A group has emerged to save (edit: four, one listed on the google spreadsheet as sold is theirs too) electrics out of Nobleville: https://www.hoosiertrolley.org/trolleys

Interestingly, on their gofudme page (https://www.gofundme.com/save-hoosier-railroad-history) they say that "We must reach our fundraising goal by Nov 1st, or risk losing our historic railroad artifacts." This would seem to indicate that Noblesville city government is giving everyone until the end of the month to get cars and engines out or it "risks" scrapping.

Scranton Yard · **Joined:** Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am **Posts:** 720

PMC wrote:

A group has emerged to save three electrics out of Nobleville: https://www.hoosiertrolley.org/trolleys

Interestingly, on their gofudme page (https://www.gofundme.com/save-hoosier-railroad-history) they say that "We must reach our fundraising goal by Nov 1st, or risk losing our historic railroad artifacts." This would seem to indicate that Noblesville city government is giving everyone until the end of the month to get cars and engines out or it "risks" scrapping.

It could also indicate that either Hoosier Trolley's purchase contract with ITM requires payment by Nov. 1 or that the City is requiring all paperwork to be submitted for review by Nov. 1 and payment is required to obtain a Bill of Sale from ITM.

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2612

Scranton Yard wrote:

It could also indicate that either Hoosier Trolley's purchase contract with ITM requires payment by Nov. 1 or that the City is requiring all paperwork to be submitted for review by Nov. 1 and payment is required to obtain a Bill of Sale from ITM.

Extremely unlikely, because the group already owned the cars as of as of July 13 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =858139899) and Noblesville is apparently not countenancing any sale after ITM left and the gates were locked. If you actually read the gofundme page, the next sentence is: "We are currently scheduling a move of the priceless cars for mid-October with support from fellow organizations and a qualified contractor. The estimated moving costs of each car is $7,000, or $28,000 total." They further note on their website (which I also posted a link to): "We are currently arranging for the transport of our historic trolley collection from Noblesville, Ind. this month. Our goal is $30,000." And on a facebook page mentioning the gofundme: "Proceeds will go towards relocation costs of four of the last surviving Indiana electric railway artifacts in existence. We have just a few weeks to hit our goal and save a part of Indiana history." Nowhere is mentioned the need to buy them, and it strongly implies that they already own them. It could be a fake emergency to stimulate funding, but I don't think so.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:53 pm

According to their FB posts, the above-mentioned Hoosier Trolley traction group has moved three of the four cars so far:

https://www.facebook.com/hoosiertrolley ... 7679852895

https://www.facebook.com/hoosiertrolley ... 783186018/

https://www.facebook.com/hoosiertrolley ... 9073282089

BigBoy 4023 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am **Posts:** 489

Anyone have the latest on the Baldwin diesel or Milw F units?

Robert

artschwartz · **Posted:** Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:12 am

It will be interesting to see if the Hoosier Heartland group can move the remaining car, the Indianapolis carbody, without it collapsing. It appears to be in very poor condition from the pictures that I have seen. I wish them the best of luck, but it appears to me to be a lost cause. Even if it can be moved and the body restored, finding the equipment needed to complete the car will be almost impossible, as there were almost no cars with similar equipment built in the depression era of the early 1930's.

Dennis Storzek · **Posted:** Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:22 am

Very happy to see someone taking an interest in these cars, and that they will be preserved in Indiana. As I have been watching this debacle unfold, I was wondering if IRM would get involved, to round out their collection of the development of the interurban, then belatedly realize that in the years I've been inactive, they've acquired several other Indiana and Ohio carbodies, which would fill the gaps. One group, no matter how large, can only handle so much. Good to see fresh blood, fresh interest, and fresh money swoop in and save these cars, they could form the nucleus of a museum dedicated to Indiana traction, along the lines of Electric City in Scranton.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:51 am

I checked the Google spreadsheet, and did not see a listing for PRR 12 duplex single bedroom-5 double bedroom (12DXSB-5DB) sleeper #8020 Magic Brook (P-S, Lot #6566, Plan #4066B, 1939), which was acquired by the museum after it was retired by the Pennsy in 1967. Was this car already not part of the museum's collection, i.e., scrapped or resold, or is its fate simply not known at this point? Thanks in advance for any info.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:31 pm

Hoosier Heartland Trolley has now successfully acquired and removed:

Indiana Union Traction interurban cars Nos. 429 and 437;
Terre Haute, Indianapolis & Eastern interurban car No. 81;
and Indianapolis Street Railway car No. 153.

They still need donations, of course.

Quote:

In fact, No. 153 was within minutes of being demolished when the organization's secretary William Whitmer literally stepped between the car and a backhoe that was ready to begin demolition with paperwork to show that the group owned the car.

No. 153, the last remaining streetcar from the Indianapolis system, was built in 1935 and ran until 1953. It has been stored outside for many years with only a tarp to cover the top. To say it is in rough shape would be an understatement, but the volunteers are confident they can bring the old car back to life one it is safe from outside elements.

The 429 and 437 were built in 1925 by the St. Louis Car Co., while the 81, a wood car built by Jewett, was built in 1902. It is reported to be the oldest surviving Jewett car.

The 429 is in the best shape of the four cars. It had been stored in an inside location for the last 30 to 40 years. It is the first car the group plans to have running again, hopefully by 2025, which would be its 100th birthday.

Hoosier Heartland is actively seeking donations and so far has raised about $30,000. On a drizzly and chilly October Saturday when members were working to get the 153 ready to be moved, an official from Indiana Landmarks was on hand to present a check for $3,500 earmarked for work on the 153.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... ana-museum

lmckay175 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:48 am

In a continuation of the ITM saga, CNS&M interurban car 172 has been unloaded at the Illinois Railway Museum and has been placed into secure indoor storage. The full story can be found at the below links.

Hicks Car Works:
https://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2018 ... g-172.html
https://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2018 ... g-172.html

Preserved Traction Blog:
http://pnaerc.blogspot.com/2018/12/nort ... y-irm.html

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/IllinoisRailwa ... 2322507939

IRM website:
https://www.irm.org/in-the-news/histori ... G0UFE8cBao

I would especially recommend reading the Hick's Car Works stories. I won't summarize the full story here, but here are 3 major takeaways:
- Car 172 was selected for preservation at least in part due to it being the most original, un-modernized car surviving from the North Shore Line.
-To secure indoor storage space for Car 172, CSS&SB interurban coach 37 was sold to the RAIL foundation, where it will be restored to operation. (Car 37 was never officially accessioned by IRM.)
-The City of Noblesville was described on Hicks Car Works as "very helpful and professional."

Lucas

AlcoC420 · **Joined:** Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:17 pm **Posts:** 267

It is great to see that many people and organizations have stepped forward to save the equipment from the mess that the ITM became.

Sadly, in all the reporting on the move of the CNS&M #172 to the Illinois Railway Museum and the report by the IRM that the owner donated the car to the IRM, there is no mention of his name, that I have seen.

Why?

This car was owned by John Horachek { hope I spelled his name right } who was a former employee of the North Shore Line. He played a large part in the saving of many pieces of North Shore equipment.

He took great pride in the ownership and operation of the #172 at Noblesville. I knew that they stopped operating it and their trolley system many years ago and I find it very sad to see it's current condition.

So, Thank You John, for the foresight in saving this car, seeing to it's continued operation for many years at ITM and for seeing that it's future is insured. May the IRM get it back in service in the near future.

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2612

lmckay175 wrote:

Preserved Traction Blog:
http://pnaerc.blogspot.com/2018/12/nort ... y-irm.html

"With the transfer of car 172 to IRM, there are only three electrics listed on the PNAERC [Preserved North American Electric Railway Cars] roster under ITM ownership: the three derelict Lackawanna MU trailers stored on the siding in Cicero."

Edit: on Page 5 of this thread Eric S. lists the following DL&W coaches stored at Cicero:

1917 Erie-Lackawanna 4336 Pullman Coach Steel

1917 Erie-Lackawanna 4337 Pullman Coach Steel

1930 Erie-Lackawanna 4361 Pullman Coach Steel

lmckay175 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:51 am

AlcoC420 wrote:

It is great to see that many people and organizations have stepped forward to save the equipment from the mess that the ITM became.

Sadly, in all the reporting on the move of the CNS&M #172 to the Illinois Railway Museum and the report by the IRM that the owner donated the car to the IRM, there is no mention of his name, that I have seen.

Why?

This car was owned by John Horachek { hope I spelled his name right } who was a former employee of the North Shore Line. He played a large part in the saving of many pieces of North Shore equipment.

He took great pride in the ownership and operation of the #172 at Noblesville. I knew that they stopped operating it and their trolley system many years ago and I find it very sad to see it's current condition.

So, Thank You John, for the foresight in saving this car, seeing to it's continued operation for many years at ITM and for seeing that it's future is insured. May the IRM get it back in service in the near future.

This was just posted on Hicks Car Works thanking John:
https://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2018 ... achek.html

Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Move

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