Just back from Southern California and want to say a bit on this diplay. There is a lot there is good; after all 1863 steam locomotives do not grow on trees.

Most of the equipment is recently painted but not lettered, You need to know what you are looking at to recognize the cars. The steam dummy from 1881 is amazing and what a restoration project it would make. Only two dummies in the US.

The best news is the new display barn in in frame with the four tracks cemented in place. They expect to move equipment indoors around the end of the year. Because they moved some fire engines to the L A Fire Museum; the three wooden narrow gauge cars are now indoors for the first time.

I was there on a Sunday so the only staff was teenage summer help. I didn't see anyone who had any knowledge of the resource. I had heard here at RYPN, that the Association which provided volunteers is having pproblems. Sadly no volunteers were in evidence. The M177 gas-electric that they have been working on was under a tarp, so could not see much.

ted_miles@nps.gov

Hi. I think I overheard you talking to the staff. I'm sorry now I didn't interrupt. I'm one of the volunteers, and was there working much of Sunday on the Baldwin RS-12 diesel.

We had a full crew of volunteers out on Sat working on several projects including the Baldwin, the M.177 and the UP diner.

The postings here and elsewhere about the volunteer problems were incomplete to say the least. Only one group, the SCSRA had its permits cancelled, and that was after about two years of inactivity on restoration projects. The other permitted group, the ASRA (http://mcscom.com/asra/) is still making great progress on the passenger cars. And some of the key volunteers (such as myself) who used to work with the SCSRA are still leading teams of craftsmen and laborers working on the diesel locomotives, (both of which still run) the M.177 (the engine runs) as well as many track projects.

Greg

> Just back from Southern California and want
> to say a bit on this diplay. There is a lot
> there is good; after all 1863 steam
> locomotives do not grow on trees.

> Most of the equipment is recently painted
> but not lettered, You need to know what you
> are looking at to recognize the cars. The
> steam dummy from 1881 is amazing and what a
> restoration project it would make. Only two
> dummies in the US.

> The best news is the new display barn in in
> frame with the four tracks cemented in
> place. They expect to move equipment indoors
> around the end of the year. Because they
> moved some fire engines to the L A Fire
> Museum; the three wooden narrow gauge cars
> are now indoors for the first time.

> I was there on a Sunday so the only staff
> was teenage summer help. I didn't see anyone
> who had any knowledge of the resource. I had
> heard here at RYPN, that the Association
> which provided volunteers is having
> pproblems. Sadly no volunteers were in
> evidence. The M177 gas-electric that they
> have been working on was under a tarp, so
> could not see much.


http://www.traveltown.org
greg@cscvrr.org

I have to confess that I do not know the whole story about Travel Town and the city, some of my opinions may be based on bad data. That said, here are some thoughts of mine about TT:

I believe that L.A. deserves to have a high quality railroad museum. The collection at Travel Town could be the core of that museum, but I do not believe that the Department of Recreation and Parks is up to the task financially or organizationally.

TT is a pretty popular attraction in its current state. It would probably serve a larger and more diverse group of citizens if a well preserved collection was used to tell the stories of California RR history, but the city does not have the money or will to pursue such efforts. There has been a desire on the part of Recreation and Parks to turn TT into a real museum, but without money and politically astute advocacy, there have been few resources to do more than incrimmental improvements. Unfortunately, what little budget has been available has primarily been directed to address the city's exposure to liability.

For TT to make it as a museum, it needs an administration that is independent from Recreation and Parks and its limited budget. This solution would require the establishment of a non-profit organization to lobby and raise money for the establishment of the Los Angeles Railroad Museum. Ideally, the board of such an organization would have deep pockets and good connections. They would also need the support of Rec. and Parks, becuase they would, in essence, be asking for them to give up control of something that is theirs.

I would also suggest that it is worth asking if Griffith Park is the right place for this museum. The site of the first railroad station and yard is to be developed into a park next to Chinatown. Are there any historic RR facilities in Los Angeles that would make appropriate homes?

Any opinions or interest out there? Does the SBRHS have any interest in becoming the LARHS?

Greg,

Yes I wish you had said something! I am glad to hear that you still have an active corps of volunteers at the Museum.

Now how about some lettering on all those cars and locomotives?

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

...the 'train ride' there that was in the Guide to Tourist Railways a few years back. I remember a critter and a flatcar & caboose. Anyway, something that was regularly scheduled and moving. Does that still operate, and if not, what was the story, anyway? I remember looking in the current Guide and not seeing anything of a train ride listed there.

randygustafson@stoneconsulting.com

If you mean the monthly caboose train, we had to cancel that when construction of the Locomotive Pavilion building started. All available track had to be filled so we could clear equipment out of the construction area.

Construction is underway on the CS & CV RR mainline along the foot of the mountain, and we will probably resume operations when there is enough track ready so operations won't have to happen in the display area.

Greg

> ...the 'train ride' there that was in the
> Guide to Tourist Railways a few years back.
> I remember a critter and a flatcar &
> caboose. Anyway, something that was
> regularly scheduled and moving. Does that
> still operate, and if not, what was the
> story, anyway? I remember looking in the
> current Guide and not seeing anything of a
> train ride listed there.


http://www.traveltown.org
greg@cscvrr.org

Is it still planned to extend the train ride to the Griffith Park Zoo? That would seem to be a big draw if it happened. While I don't think anyone believes Travel Town should go away, it would seem that some of the equipment might be traded off to more appropriate homes, lessening the maintenance burden on the volunteers, who would be stretched rather thin between the train ride and display maintenance.

ryarger@rypn.org

Yes, we are still actively working on the railroad. But don't expect it to be done real soon.

Things have been traded off in the past, and if a more appropriate acquisition presents itself, I suspect things could be traded off in the future.

But I'm curious. What artifacts should be traded off and to whom? Who has excess labor and money to restore any of Travel Town's aritfacts that doesn't already have equipment sitting in their boneyards?

And what should we get in exchange for it?

Greg

> Is it still planned to extend the train ride
> to the Griffith Park Zoo? That would seem to
> be a big draw if it happened. While I don't
> think anyone believes Travel Town should go
> away, it would seem that some of the
> equipment might be traded off to more
> appropriate homes, lessening the maintenance
> burden on the volunteers, who would be
> stretched rather thin between the train ride
> and display maintenance.


http://www.traveltown.org
greg@cscvrr.org

Glad to hear the demontration railway is still underway.

In response to the earlier commment, the city has traded pieces out of the collection in the recent past (1990 or so). Travel Town de-accessioned a Pennsy heavyweight (i can't remember what kind of car), two narrow gauge Hawaiian engines, and all of the aircraft. In exchange, the city acquired a C.O.L.A. pullman, a C.O.S.F. pullman, and an operable Califonia Western diesel.

I am sure the people at Travel Town would like to improve their collection of steam-era freight and passenger cars, but I think that juggling the collection is not their highest priority at this time, and for good reason.

If I were to speculate on what could be traded off at Travel Town, I would want to know more about the museum's intended scope. I believe that city had developed a collections policy that was used to justify the earlier round of trading, but I do not know how focused or broad the vision might be.

Travel Town has great examples of California short lines, logging railroads, LA streetcars, the usual hadful of industrial engines, and several engines from the main line railroads, including a W.P. 2-8-0 and an S.P. 4-4-2. Travel Town has one of the largest collections of steam engines in the west.

> Yes, we are still actively working on the
> railroad. But don't expect it to be done
> real soon.

> Things have been traded off in the past, and
> if a more appropriate acquisition presents
> itself, I suspect things could be traded off
> in the future.

> But I'm curious. What artifacts should be
> traded off and to whom? Who has excess labor
> and money to restore any of Travel Town's
> aritfacts that doesn't already have
> equipment sitting in their boneyards?

> And what should we get in exchange for it?

> Greg


rrrarch@yahoo.com

On correction. The Pennsy heavyweight is still at Travel Town. Though it isn't exactly generic to the Museum's focus, it is used for birthday parties which makes TT money, so is unlikely to be traded off.

> In response to the earlier commment, the
> city has traded pieces out of the collection
> in the recent past (1990 or so). Travel Town
> de-accessioned a Pennsy heavyweight (i can't
> remember what kind of car), two narrow gauge
> Hawaiian engines, and all of the aircraft.
> In exchange, the city acquired a C.O.L.A.
> pullman, a C.O.S.F. pullman, and an operable
> Califonia Western diesel.



http://www.traveltown.org
greg@cscvrr.org