There have been some interesting threads about big steam (past, present and future) the past few days. It's not a happy subject in 2003, since we are seeing what may be the leanest operation of big steamers to date.

I don't prescibe to the thought that this is a permanent situation, but it may last for some time.

What are the reasons, and how can they be overcome?

Insurance is the leading cause of the current crucnh, or at least it is the popular fall guy. It is the only element that elbow-grease cannot fix. For a revival, insurance reform is a must.

Lack of track. It is oft-said that the mega-mergers haev limtied places to run big engines. That's true, although the regional roads that have sprouted up have provided new opportunities. If the insurance crisis ends, finding track should become easier.

Lack of trains: If insurance is solved and regional host railroads get onboard, what do the people ride in? The slimming fleet of mainline-ready passenger stock could be the biggest limiting factor to capacity.

Lack of talent: I don't know that this is a problem now, but if steam operations decline before a rebirth, the loss of human continuity could create the biggest crisis.

What do you think?

Rob

rdavis@rypn.org

Points made in similar threads some time back:

1. Classic big mainline survival length excursions are not pleasant for everybody, nor do they permit fans to get the experience of trackside action - in an air conditioned coach 15 cars back anything could be pulling.

2. No mainline steamer even 5 years ago before the insurance crunch, apart from those operated by railroads themselves, was running enough revenue miles to justify the real costs of the capitalization of the past and future restorations as well as real operating costs. We need fewer operated more intensively, not more available each making too little to stay alive.

3. Forming a national consortium of mainline steam operators who would cooperatively rotate their engines in and out of service every several years as overhauls become necessary would give meny operators a chance to earn enough through operation and showcase themselves a couple times a lifetime. Anybody want to get them to cooperate?

4. Lighter equipment - maybe a 1920's 4-6-2 and 2-8-0 pulling a period passenger and freight train could use shortlines and branchlines and thereby stand a better chance of making a national or regional tour. Nobody wants to risk tying up the mainline, but the twice a week branchline is much easier to accomodate extra moves.

Insurance can be bought if you sell enough revenue miles. You must have a marketable impulse time and money commitment product to sell to attract the general public, and you must do it in many different venues like a touring stage show to enlarge the potential audience. We need to think like entertainment industry producers if we wish to keep operating and act accordingly.

Dave



irondave@bellsouth.net

In addition to thinking like the entertainment industry folks need to ponder whether a steam locomotive alone is enough draw- wouldn't a touring steam locomotive make more sense if it accompanied something with broader appeal, like a traveling Iron Age technology exhibit at the local museum ? Or some tie-in to an engineering school or convention ? Or travel or transportation show ? State Fairs ? Monster Trucks ? Does it matter ?

As a group we dont seem to liase well with other interests, perhaps out of fear that the "classic" steam experience would be diluted, perhaps thinking too narrowly that it has to be a Railroad event. You sit in coaches and get pulled by the train...thats it folks, line forms right here, and dont worry about that soot ma'am because black "goes with everything". There needs to be a reason to be out there, something of interest for everyone, not just the hundred or so people who might be dazzled by the emitting "vapeur". Believe it or not, most of the public are there for the scenery and a pleasant afternoon away from their e-mail. What is our "show " and who are we putting it on for ? And insurance is just another logistic to be included in the business plans for the event so that you arent going out of business one rider at a time.


staybolt@bellsouth.net

> In addition to thinking like the
> entertainment industry folks need to ponder
> whether a steam locomotive alone is enough
> draw- wouldn't a touring steam locomotive
> make more sense if it accompanied something
> with broader appeal, like a traveling Iron
> Age technology exhibit at the local museum ?
> Or some tie-in to an engineering school or
> convention ? Or travel or transportation
> show ? State Fairs ? Monster Trucks ? Does
> it matter ?

> As a group we dont seem to liase well with
> other interests, perhaps out of fear that
> the "classic" steam experience
> would be diluted, perhaps thinking too
> narrowly that it has to be a Railroad event.
> You sit in coaches and get pulled by the
> train...thats it folks, line forms right
> here, and dont worry about that soot ma'am
> because black "goes with
> everything". There needs to be a reason
> to be out there, something of interest for
> everyone, not just the hundred or so people
> who might be dazzled by the emitting
> "vapeur". Believe it or not, most
> of the public are there for the scenery and
> a pleasant afternoon away from their e-mail.
> What is our "show " and who are we
> putting it on for ? And insurance is just
> another logistic to be included in the
> business plans for the event so that you
> arent going out of business one rider at a
> time.

Finally, some of you guys are getting what I've been trying (admittedly clumsily) to say. Dave's post and the one quoted above hit it dead on. The average daisy-picker isn't all that interested in a marathon 12-hour trip with lots of runbys. An hour on the train is about right for them. You can make it an hour each way if there's good scenery en route and something to do at the destination.

Were I involved with a mainline steam group, I'd be looking into ways the group could partner with other groups in the area around the locomotive's base of operations. I'd be looking for ways to give the excursions pulled by the locomotive a reason for being other than just the train ride. Dave's idea of national coordination is a good one, but if individual groups coordinate with other kinds of organizations locally I don't believe it's really necessary.

I'm not totally against big, mainline steam, as some people seem to have assumed -- although I'm definitely more of a shortline and narrow gauge fan. I just think there are too many mainline engines "out there" that are being mantained at the expense of a good many smaller engines. One or two mainline engines per region is plenty to handle the mainline trips that are likely to develop in any given area.

The South Carolina RR Museum
mconrad@compuzone.net