Having seen and photographed this locomotive in actual operation (Chalk River, Ontario, in August 1955), I will certainly make a small contribution towards preserving her if a legitimate funding effort is ever launched.

I trust Al, if he says hold off right now, it's for good reason. The offer from Niagara Railway is a new turn of events, hopefully we can get something concrete in place (there or elsewhere) that the owner is comfortable with.

I'm so sorry to ask you to repeat yourself Al, but is the owner's deadline really Dec 15th?? If thats the case, excellent! As that gives us more time to put a plan together. Otherwise I dont want this movement to settle in a false sense of safety just yet.

From what I am hearing the engine is safe for the moment. I am supposing that Al Crisp is going to keep an eye on the situation and let us know if there are any changes but for the immediate future we can ease up. I will let Al decide what should be released and when, many thanks to him for spearheading this.

Al Crisp here; Yes that is the date he quoted to me. Plus a number of others have come forth with offers, whole and in parts. We spoke a couple times this morning.
That plus the offer of sanctuary on the Fort Erie side, some thing may be moving. I make no bones my preference is some place in Canada, but something is better then nothing. It has been pointed out to me by someone in the know that there is a number of Canadian locos in American hands that are just sitting already. Where ever it lands we are dealing with a shrinking environment for steam preservation or any preservation for that matter and all sorts of liability issues.
What was this 503 debacle??

Al, That will make for a long read I'm afraid. http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41872&hilit=L%26amp%3BA+503

Robert

I dont want to detract from 5361 so I will try to keep this short. The "503 debacle" occurred earlier this yr when the city of Port Arthur, TX announced it was going to scrap 4-6-0 L&A 503, an engine that had been sitting in a city park for some 50+ yrs over environmental concerns. The engine was an oil burner, and apparently when donated the tender tank was never drained, so when the city was bombarded by hurricanes last yr, the engine and tender leaked enough oil and asbestos the EPA had a fit. Allegedly there were requests made for a possible buyers, but nothing happened. So the city called up a scrapper to dispose the engine and clean site.

Railfan community exploded. In less than a week, a Gofundme fundraiser was setup by Rail preservationists Jason Sobcynski and Nick Hovey for some 65K to purchase, and transport the locomotive to the nearby Texas State rail museum for a temp home. It was a glorious operation. A crane company offered to move the engine at cost, (no profit), the rail museum offered a home with no strings attached, and a tourist dinner train experience in Florida offered to foot the bill to restore and operate the engine for their operation on the condition a non profit was setup for the engine for them to be able to lease it.

For en engine at death's door to a new lease of life it was going great!

Until politics came in...

HOURS before Sobcynski could sign the dotted line with all money raised, the city called up the scrapper and killed the deal, citing "ownership dispute" claims saying the scrapper had no right to sell something that was "city property". (Even though the city had ALREADY turned ownership to the scrapper). Then began a circus of "concerned" city officials and citizens playing the heritage sympathy card saying it was their "icon" and it belonged to the citizens of Port Arthur. (Even though the 503 was neglected for 50 yrs and in a pretty bad shape btw)

Eventually, the city won the battle and kept the 503, safe from destruction, but with a dubious future of display. Leaving the fundraiser unpaid. However, with permission from donors, the money was then used for the emergency move of NKP 587 from Indiana to Kentucky this summer.

There were many MANY details that never came to light, but the 503 effort opened a political can of worms that still leaves people sour. Hence why people are saying they will only support 5361 if it can be guaranteed their efforts and donations have a better chance of actually doing what the fundraiser plans to do, actually saving a locomotive and getting it to a new home.

Hate 'em or love 'em, Trains Magazine has told me they have a writer looking into this situation.

I've got other things I'm working on, bet let me chime in here with some more reality:

1) LISTEN to Brothers Strohmeyer and Crisp. They are applying VERY appropriate logic and reason to a desperately emotional (on all sides) issue here.

2) Rest assured that editors from all the major railfan media "lurk" here. Further, some of the semi-regular contributors to Kalmbach and White River Productions' products, both in print and online, are regular names here, myself and Wayne Laepple included. This is NOT going unnoticed, BUT this is a difficult situation for any writer not physically on the scene to grasp and get an accurate, non-libelous handle on. (Many scenarios like this are. Note that there has never been a real "exposé" on the entire East Broad Top scenario over the past 30 years, for much the same reason--there are legitimate corporate and personal privacy issues involved.)

3) Just because they are not reported here doesn't mean things aren't happening. MOST rail museums, professional excursion outfits, large-scale donors, etc. have many justifiable reasons for NOT disclosing negotiations or their existence publicly until a deal is signed, literally as a contract.
Mr. Crisp has said that other parties have contacted the owner. We have no idea if these offers are serious or frivolous, but if the owner is mentioning them, it either means he's trying to keep the price high with the old "I have several others coming to look at it" ploy, or they are indeed serious but want to keep things quiet.
For all we know, someone is legitimately looking for a year-end tax write-off (also possibly some of the driving force behind the deadline, I speculate--tax purposes) and is poised to buy the loco to donate to a Canadian museum or anyone else appropriate. But I can say right now that even if I were Mr. Moneybags and had $500K at my disposal, I'd be VERY deep in protracted negotiations to dot every "I" and cross every "T" before handing over any money. And I wouldn't be Mr. Moneybags without being a ruthless negotiator like Donald Trump portrayed himself as.

4) Somebody--and this has to be CAREFULLY chosen or appointed--has to go in as a true "diplomat" to broker a deal that will make the owner content but not "rip us off." The lower the price drops, the more there is to move it, whether for a for-profit or non-profit. There are a scant few I would trust in this kind of situation, and we already know who some of them are--the type that pull off last-minute saves at IRM, the type that convince railroads to allow a Bicentennial steam train, etc. The wrong words in such a meeting will get that loco scrapped out of spite.
And, trust me, if someone like Strasburg, Age of Steam, TVRM, Grand Canyon, or whoever IS looking at this loco, they are sending or have sent their best negotiator, tire-kicker, and whatnot to do the dealing. This is why places succeed--they have the best mechanic in the shop, the best "people persons" dealing with the public, and the best business people administering and brokering deals. (I don't care if the executive director needs to carry a cheat sheet to remember the history of the locos or that it's "Alco" and not "Alcoa"--they need the guy that can talk the crane company into donating their services or the foundation to underwrite a new display building, and make them think it was their idea all along!)

So, at this point, it would be beneficial to the "preservation movement" IF any "serious" parties investigating this loco would discretely disclose their interest back-channel and in confidence to Mr. Crisp. We basically need to know if this cluster[BLEEP] of emotions on this forum is the only serious, legitimate effort to rescue this loco.

We have an offer of a place for it to go temporarily (Fort Erie). We SUPPOSEDLY have an offer to transport it to someplace where further work can be taken (the short line it's by). Both of those need to be committed in writing, if possible. Then there's the issue of prepping it for movement. That either takes months of volunteer work (and NOT in the dead of a Lake Erie winter) or a paid crew. From there, we need the options--across town on a couple RRs (will they agree?), flatcar, truck? And is there an ULTIMATE destination? Fort Erie sounds as good as any if CN 6218 needs a sister........

Someone here will remember, and be able to find quickly, the Rapido 'proposed list' of projects ... many of them involving Canadian steam prototypes ... considered for production up to about 2022. A project concerning 5361 may change both the scheduling and the 'feasibility' of having this produced (possibly in different variants) especially if there is pre-existing computer modeling or other production planning already done.

An important thing, though, would be a well-established and fully credible Friends of 5361 organization and associated funding strategies (not just crowdfunding) into which the Rapido people could credibly tap... this in turn leading fairly quickly to a written agreement with the owner rescinding the threat to scrap retributively, at least temporarily.

Al Crisp here; I would be happy to talk to any serious individuals or groups. My loyalty is to the locomotive and the owner and I want to see it [preferably intact in Canada] either on display of better yet under steam. I have had some contact with CP and I will keep banging that door til they drag me out kicking and screaming. Tomorrow I will put some info into the hands of Culture Canada. CPR are looking better on their community involvement side and hey this thing would be PR heaven for an organization whose press has not been all positive of late. Everybody loves a Steam engine racing thru the landscape. It has been twenty years since they brought 2816 home, sort of, it was a Montreal resident. If a legitimate US based rescue comes about and is the only option I will give it my support. I am cheap and I can be tricked!? AL Crisp MMR

DO NOT annoy and tick off the people you MAY need to come to later in order to ask favors/favours later (free or reduced transport, loan of a car, look the other way while we cross your tracks at night, etc.)!

The Engine 557 Restoration Company doesn't have any connection with the model other than to provide prototype drawings to the manufacturer.

Just wanted to speak up to let people know that there's more going on then what can be seen at a glance.

To be clear, I do not want to step on anyone's toes here. I am not trying to interfere, I am not trying to conflict with anyone. I am respectfully waiting in order to let current efforts take their course and hopefully they are successful. However, I want to make sure that there is a plan ready to step up in case current efforts fall through. Therefore, I am working to organize a group of people with a developed plan and the appropriate resources that can immediately step in without having to waste precious time organizing ourselves if something does go wrong. Again, I am not trying to overshadow other efforts, I just want to ensure that we have a "Plan B" if those efforts don't succeed.

This backup group has already attracted several experienced and very knowledgeable individuals. They have helped restore and operate many engines such as the SP 4449. the SP&S 700, the CP 2816, the CP 2860, and several others. However, we are largely located on the west side of the country and one of our needs is more people that are closer to the engine and can provide much needed ground support. This thread has shown that there are tons of excellent people that want to get involved and have a lot to bring to the table. What we need to do is organize these people and focus them as one effort so that we have the best chance possible at saving this engine.

In case must step up, we are already working to outline a plan that would safely bring the engine to a safe place where it could be stored and be accessible for public viewing. The location we have in mind could likely store the engine for up to several years, or maybe longer, allowing for extended plans to be made to either make the location its permanent residence or for moving the engine to another home for continued preservation/operation. Their proximity would also make for a very economical move. I am currently communicating with them in order to work out the necessary details and verify that they are a viable option. I am also working on contacting the adjacent DL&W to see what our options are there and to get it in writing. I can go more in depth about the forming plan if wanted but I didn't want to add unnecessary clutter to the thread and start naming people until more of it is confirmed. There's a ton of logistics to figure out here and we've barely scratched the surface.

As stated before, I would like to organize a potential group to be ready to act if all else fails. I have several very experienced friends that are already providing help but none of us are local enough to the engine to do this ourselves. We need your help. Please contact me if you'd like to help, have any advice, know something important, have questions, or etc.

One last time, I do not want to screw things up for anyone, I just want to be prepared in case we get caught with our pants down.... Thank you.

Sincerely,
Ryan Williams
ironranchryan@gmail.com

Ryan,
I sent you an email.