If there was ever a derelict ship that had nine lives...

https://www.wearetheunitedstates.org/si ... RXR-Realty

Once again, some suckker comes on line to toss a few hundred k's into dock fees. I just don't get it. Nice RR museums are living off what would be their crumbs. I guess boats are sexier then trains.

Totally not jealous...

What I've never understood about this deal is, if they really want to preserve the ship, why waste so much money?
As I recall, they received $10 million several years ago....which would have covered a tow to a better storage site and the costs of storage for a long time, but they instead wanted to keep paying $60k a month or more to rent that dock space...where they did little to no work anyway...it makes no sense.... I begin to wonder just where has the money gone?
If you figure the tow would run about $1 million and Storage somewhere like the james river storage site that MARAD uses which would undoubtedly cost under $10k a month....that alone would have stretched the money 4-5 times longer, not to mention having better rule requirements for working on the ship, etc.... It would seem to be the smarter thing to do, unless the issue is incompetence or something nefarious going on...

The place where the SS US is currently docked on the Delaware River is fresh water, not salt. That means a lot to prevent corrosion. For decades the USN docked 3 of the 4 Iowa Class BB's downstream of where the SS US is docked, and all 3 of them went back on active duty and are now museum ships. (the fourth Iowa, USS Missouri (BB-63) was at Bremerton WA). The USN still uses the former Philadelphia Navy Yard to store ships withdrawn from active duty but not delisted. Fresh water, not salt.

The SS United States was built with USN's WWII experience of sailing the two Cunard Queens as troopships across the Atlantic unescorted at speed, and the SS US is even faster. SS United States is the fastest passenger liner ever built and different preservation entities have planned something that didn't work out.

Phil Mulligan

One has to appreciate the affection (affliction) of "S.S.United States" as a ship of state and the last of the great trans-Atlantic liners. The "Queen Mary" is in tough shape, in a locale from where she never sailed. "France" was cut up in Alang, India, a few years back. The "United States" was once, along with all the other great liners, practically a fixture of the NYC skyline. I recall her significant cameo in the beginning of "West Side Story". Architecturally, she's a gem.
But... I've read her engines are no longer operative or repairable, fuel hungry, and the demand for use as a ship is less than negligible. This is a perfect storm (sorry about that) of a preservation crisis. Preserving a ship makes RR preservation look like a walk in the park.

If only RXR had a place they could tie her up to, oh wait, https://www.rxrrealty.com/property/development/pier-57/.

It probably doesn't hurt that Google is leasing up just about every large block of space in the Pier 57 neighborhood. Maybe they are looking for some floating office space.

Roger

She has the same engines installed as the aircraft carriers of her day, so yes, fuel hungary. Her hull is also too fine to carry enough passengers to be re-engined and re-purposed as a cruise ship. It's only hope is to be used for something stationary like a hotel.

She also has an aluminum superstructure on top of a steel hull to keep the center of gravity as low as possible. The rubber separating them is rotting away, allowing corrosion between the two to take place.

Ship preservation is even harder than railway preservation, and even more expensive. When I was maintaining the Surviving World Steamship database, it became a depressing documentation of ships sent to the breakers or even sunk as targets by the U.S. Navy:

Steam Dredge Col. D.D. Gaillard -- scrapped 2002
Trainsport (Victory Ship) S.S. Pvt. Fred Murphy -- scrapped 2006
Passenger ship S.S. Monterey -- sold for scrap 3006
Passenger ship Regent Star(S.S. Statenda) -- scrapped 2004
Screw steam frigate HMNZS Wellington -- sunk as a reef 2005
NYC Tugboat #16 -- scrapped 2006
Passenger ship S.S. Copa Casino(Ryndam) -- sank on it's way to the breakers 2003
Steam ferry Sandria(Philadelphia) -- burned to the waterline and sank 2004
Side wheel steamer Lincoln Castle -- burned and scrapped 2010
Lightship New Bedford -- scrapped 2007
Cement carrier L.E. Block -- scrapped 2006
Ore carrier S.S. Kinsman Enterprise -- scrapped 2003
Cruiser U.S.S. Des Moines -- scrapped 2006
Passenger ship Oceanic(S.S. Independence) -- grounded, broken up and scrapped 2009
Ferry Pvt. Joseph Merrill -- scrapped 2003
Ferry Cornelius G. Kolff -- scrapped 2004
Passenger steamer TSS Manxman II (appeared in the movie "Chariots of Fire") -- scrapped 2010
Passenger steamer Margarita L(RMS Windsor Castle) -- scrapped 2005
Passenger steamer Big Red Boat II(Edinburgh Castle) -- scrapped 2005
S.S. Norway(S.S. France) -- scrapped 2006
Tanker Sea Giant (once the largest ship in the world) -- scrapped 2003
GTR Ferry Lansdowne -- scrapped 2008
CNJ Ferry Elizabeth(Lakewood) -- sunk as a reef 2005, steam machinery preserved
Steamer S.S. Canadiana -- scrapped 2003
Side wheel steamer Ryde Queen -- scrapped 2010

The list goes on and on and on; due in part to the Merchant Marine and U.S. Navy selling off for scrap the ships they had stored in reserves (the "Ghost Fleet") in Philadelphia, Beaumont, and Sacramento.

I wonder how the community responds if the new commercial partners suggests building a high end/ shoreline condo/apartment mixed use development somewhere that is a formally used waterside industrial area that incorporates pieces of the ship, perhaps the bridge, the funnels, masts and builds part of the development too look like the rest of the superstructure of the ship. With the rest of the ship being scrapped.

Perhaps this is a win in current environment.

Bob

Don't think there ever was a "Ryde Queen", but the former Southern Railway PS Ryde still just about exists and a group is allegedly going to restore it.......
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-46385127
I'll belive it when I see it, however!

The Medway Queen was also in a bad way, but had a new hull constructed and work still continues on that.
https://www.medwayqueen.co.uk/

Ships generally have a more historic significance to the general public, seeing as most of the grand liners carried emigrants in the days when international travel was mostly a luxury. In the 1960s, my mother spent a year abroad studying at St. Andrews' in Scotland. Her passage (both ways) was on the SS United States.

That said, there's possibly a much broader base of interest and support for something like the United States than for something like a train.

United States was once a beautiful ship, but isn't any longer. Too bad, but if she was going to be saved it probably should have happened years ago be fore she was gutted.
We arrived in NYC on the "Independence" in 1955 when we came back from Spain where Dad had been assigned to the embassy in Madrid. I was 10 but still can remember the big liners docked on the Hudson. Spectacular!
We sailed from Brooklyn Army Terminal in 1959 on a big General class trooper the USNS General Maurice Rose, and returned two years later on the USNS General Alexander Patch. They were big handsome, but very plain, ships, and have been junked too after carrying troops to Vietnam, then serving as barracks ships for the reactivated battleship crews.
Nowadays in case of war, reinforcements will be carried in aircraft to Europe. I suppose the Air Force is big enough to protect that air channel to and from Europe, but I personally wouldn't like to be exposed and defenseless on an airplane.
Ned

I have always felt bad about the fate of the USS Cabot. I saw her tired up in New Orleans in the 90s, and didn't realize I'd never see her again.
Several folks tried to get her into a museum ship, having been brought over form Spain. It languished in new Orleans and eventually was sold for scrap.
Adding insult to injury, her island was removed and displayed at the Texas Air Museum, at Rio Hondo, Texas. The museum subsequently closed and the island was scrapped. The National Museum of Naval Aviation at NAS Pensacola constructed a replica of Cabot's island using original plans, along with a reconstructed section of flight deck, though...

I've been following the SS United States story for a few years now and while I appreciate any efforts to preserve a part of our history, I just feel like there is literally nothing left except for a shell. Certainly a few rooms could be recreated I suppose but wouldn't the money be better spent on the Queen Mary, which is fully intact (relatively speaking) and in need of some TLC? I also feel that while marine preservation has deeper pockets, railroads played a far great role in the everyday lives of Americans and still do. Ocean liners, however, are used almost purely for pleasure now and, at least in the public's perspective, far grander (both in size and amenities) than its predecessors. It just seems whether you are in the big city or rural farm country, railroads have or continue to play a more prominent role. Makes you wonder why we cannot stimulate more funds?

This is why I have a hard time getting behind the preservation of the SS United States. It's a grand spectacle on the outside, but as a previous poster mentioned, the interior is essentially empty-- stripped down to the girders when the asbestos was abated almost 30 years ago. Some might say that even in its heyday, it was rather spartan... more like a military vessel than a luxury ocean liner. (Of course it was built with military use in mind.)

The USS Lexington museum in Corpus Christi, Texas was fortunate enough to harvest various items from the Cabot prior to scrapping in Brownsville. It is interesting that Lexington CV-16 was originally laid down under the name Cabot. The loss of the Lex CV-2 at Coral Sea, spurred the yard workers to petition for the name change.


As for the SS United States, the only thing they have left to preserve is a silhouette. Saving the ship as a whole (hole, if you are familiar with owning a boat), isn’t realistic, in my opinion. As I’ve said before, save the screws, anchors, the foremast, maybe funnels, and some of the more characteristic superstructure. Scrap the rest and use the money to display the items that remain.