I trained {no pun intended} to work in the GN power car at Mid Continent only one time. They were looking for volunteers to assist the normal crew who works that car for the winter runs and occasions when it was needed in cold weather. I was impressed with the crew who had done it so many times their work was almost mechanical and they were very professional at the job. For me who never ever works in operations it was kind of cool. I am a shop guy and operations has never been my cup of tea. I fired our now scrapped MOPAC wrecker once and that was about it besides riding in cabs as a rider, never fireman. My take on steam heat is it is cool even if it comes from a portable boiler stuffed in a power car. I too think it adds to the "magic" of the train ride with wisps of steam in the air.

But the work involved to make the steam happen is actually quite a bit. What I saw that day/night was after all the people went home the train crew was still at it late into the night putting the train away and blowing out the steam lines as they would not be used again and it was middle of winter. The year I volunteered it was unseasonably warm and even at night it was still probably above 25 degrees out. Some years they were blowing the steam lines out in -20 degree weather and had been battling ice the whole weekend. While I like the smell of steam in the air and think the power car at Mid Continent is super cool little place to hang out, I can see the draw to electric heat. Unplug the cars and go home. Kneeling under the cars to hook up house air to blow them down in sub zero weather after a whole days or weekends work could get old quickly. If it were up to me I think a coal stove burning high sulfur coal would be the ideal ticket but to many nimbies and safety nazi's would object. I like steam heat but it is another system that needs to be kept up and if you only use it 3 times a year you have decide if it is worth it to you or not.

J.David, so what magical engine pulls this 3rd NPE #3? Lets see now, it isn't the SY #3025 and it isn't the #40, hmm so what loco would this be?? I never ever saw it even casually mentioned yet? Congrats on your season by the way.
Regards, John.

I hope Monticello does not go electric. Steam heat is one more thing that should be preserved. They have a nice CN boiler car to supply it. Why be rid of it? It's a museum not a tourist line. If the goal was to simply be cheap and efficient they wouldn't be running 401, not when a diesel can do the job for less money and labor.

For what it is worth. I doubt Mid Continent has any plans to convert to electric or baseboard heat. The steam system is already in place and has worked well for some time now. My comments on alternative heat was based on what some other RR are doing vs using steam. I thought manning the power car with the boiler was about the best job a crew member could have. Except when it came time to drain and winterize it all over again and blow out the steam lines on the passenger cars in extreme cold and wind. Take it a step further I wish my house had an old fashioned hot water heat with cast iron radiators like the house I grew up in had. Complete with the knocking, pounding and occasional need to be bled.

Regards, John.

Steam heat on the "real" railway lasted well into the 1980's here in the UK.
There are a limited number of preserved diesels which still retain operating steam-heat boilers, which can add to the "experience" on a cold day...........





One of the local preservation groups to me have announced this week that they have acquired a secondhand steam heat boiler to fit to one of their diesels to enable that function to be reinstated.

Who said we'd "be rid of it"? One end of the car houses our HEP generator, currently being upgraded from 60KW to 150KW. We also need to replace all the water tanks in the car due to rot, and with the genset coming out of the car, well, now's the time.

Since you feel strongly about steam heat, when can we expect you to volunteer your time to help maintain and operate this equipment? It will be for at least 16 days next November/December, running from about 3 PM to about 10:30 PM, not including days that start at 7:00 am and run until 10:30 PM (Steam heat folks aren't covered by hours of service, so you can work as long as you can stay awake!) All on Fri/Sat/Sun evenings, except for the Monday and Wednesday evenings before Polar Express starts, when we have dress rehearsals for the dance studios... the dancers want a a warm train too! Of course none of that includes pre-event testing and repairs.

Then there are the days you should be in early to fill the steam generator car with water, done with a garden hose, taking a few hours, which depending on the weather, can be at least once every weekend. None of this includes repairs to the equipment, which at the end of this past heating season, includes a non-functional overhead heat coil in one car, a leak in the baseboard radiation in the same car, two new leaks in the baseboard radiation in another car, and a new leak in the main steam conduit of another. In the baseboard leaks, it will require the removal of many seats to access the radiation covers, then their removal, then getting the radiation out of the car, which will require removing a window as the pipe is too long to go around the corners in the hallway at each end of the car.

Don't get me wrong, we appreciate and enjoy the ambiance created by a steam heated train. We also appreciate the historical significance of steam heat, but we also have to acknowledge its practical limitations in out situations, and the lack of parts availability for the heating equipment in the cars. The latter is the biggest issue we see coming. I'm curious what Everett has put in their cars, based on Jason's comment that they have replaced the original stuff. We have, at this point, a limited supply of spare parts for the various cars we use. Vapor knew their business with this stuff, making things robust and in such a way that much of it will drain if steam is removed, and better yet, if blown out with steam while hot, it will drain/dry out without leaving pockets of water to freeze and break things. I'd be somewhat concerned with how contemporary steam heat hardware deals with that aspect of our reality. We'll also acknowledge that the existing steam systems can pour BTU's into a car at an amazing rate, bringing a cold car to comfortable in a short period of time.

One interesting thing is watching our visitors. Many, many of them will go out of their way to avoid the white vapor wafting up from various leaks under cars. From comments I have overheard, many think it is some kind of dangerous smoke. To the point some will drag their children away from it, even though I'm walking through it, or standing in it. I do take time, with those inclined to listen, to point out it is simply water vapor, the same stuff that comes from a teapot on your stove, and it is what is providing heat in several of the cars. Frequently I get a "deer in the headlights" look, I expect because people just don't know about steam being used as a source of structure heating. Of course, it it were all working correctly, as J. David pointed out, all you should be seeing along the train is hot water dripping out of traps, and a little steam at the rear of the train. There shouldn't be all that steam wafting around the train. After all, all those leaks are simply wasted water/fuel.

Our Polar Express visitors don't know nor care how the train is heated, they simply expect to be comfortable. But, it is their ridership that has allowed us to do the more scholarly type things, such as in our second dining car restoration, we had custom-woven carpet made to recreate the carpet last in the car, in pattern and colors... to the tune of $30K. We could not have afforded to do that without the support of warm, happy Polar passengers.

Kent

Doesn't Steamtown still use steam heat? They did the last time I was there.

Hi John:
No magic, just more work resuscitated 2-8-0 No. 97 yet again...
I did mention it in the "2018: A Year of Accomplishments" thread at the bottom of page 2.
I didn't say too much, after all it wasn't my project this time around...
Thanks for your help!
Be well,
J.David

J.David, found it thank you. A very nice tribute to the crews I must say. Thank you. Regards, John.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42798&start=15

My apologies in advance to the OP if this is too off topic but this goes to the general issue of electric heat vs steam heat.

An HVAC company I know of has five 8' trailers that they equipped with an oil-fired forced hot air unit and a 250 gal. stainless tank. They rent them to contractors to keep homes under construction warm in the winter prior to the fire up of the HVAC system. They roll it up close to the house and run two 16" insulated flex ducts to two windows, one supply and one return. A simple stat on the interior near the return takes care of the control. For more even heating you can extend the supply further into the house. Since the whole unit is outside and self-contained, there are no fire hazards or exhaust gas issues. These units deliver BTUs quickly and keep the house warm enough for drywall and paint. Does anyone with electric heat cars use a large mobile heater to augment the electric heat system and warm the cars up more quickly prior to boarding during the colder months?

Folks,
I vividly recall riding the Diesel hauled commuter trains of the Long Island Rail Road in the 1970s. The cars has a distinctive smell from the heat and of course the wisps of steam between the cars.

At the Western Railway Museum we used to have a Diesel locomotive with a boiler to provide steam heat. I recall a couple of times that it was used to provide heat to our heavy weight cars. The Diesel later went to the Western Pacific Railroad Museum; since they do not run in the winter, I doubt it has been used since.

Ted Miles, WRM Volunteer

When the Rock Island stopped using E units to haul their Jesse James cars in Chicago commuter service, they had to turn to freight diesels which had no steam boilers. In the cold weather months, the cars would be charged with steam at the terminals from the station boilers until they got hot inside. Then, at the rush hour, the steam was disconnected and the trains would scurry home as quick as the schedule allowed while still warm inside. The switch to electrically heated bilevels and HEP solved the heating problem.