This report comes from a Yahoo message board concerning a serious air horn theft and vandalism this weekend at the SMS Rail Lines, operators of historic Baldwin diesels in New Jersey. Be on the lookout for thieves roaming your property for "souvenirs":

Between Friday June 27, 2003 and Monday June 30, 2003, The SMS Lines Railroad was the victim of a theft of the air horns from their fleet of locomotives at their Pureland NJ facility. Not only did the theives remove the airhorns, but much damage was done to the cabs of the locomotives. These thugs also attempted to remove the bells, but were unsuccessful. They did manage to damage the mountings and brackets. The horns that were removed are listed as follows:

1) Leslie model 200

2) Leslie model SL3a (3 chime)

3) Nathan P-5 (has broken casting from being pried off..was welded to roof)

4) Nathan M-3 (CN style)

The railroad is offering a reward for the return of these pieces.

So, what is the result of this action by a thug or a group of thugs? The railroad has posted a NO-Railfan policy. The last Field day was really the Last One....EVER.... No more open houses, tours or friendly employees. If anyone knows anything about this incident, NOW is the time to come forward and identify these thugs.

Kermit Geary, Jr
SRS 854
Former SMS Conductor

> So, what is the result of this action by a
> thug or a group of thugs? The railroad has
> posted a NO-Railfan policy. The last Field
> day was really the Last One....EVER.... No
> more open houses, tours or friendly
> employees. If anyone knows anything about
> this incident, NOW is the time to come
> forward and identify these thugs.

Kinda going overboard aren't they? If someone breaks into your house do you then become a hermit and stop having contact with ALL humans?

Find and prosecute the perp, but don't try and convict the entire railfan population!

Do the people at SMS KNOW that it was indeed a railfan who stole the horns?

I wonder, if someone broke into my machine shop and stole my drill press, would I stop having contact with all of my machinist friends? After all, it HAD TO BE a machinist that stole my drill press!!!!!



Tod Engine Foundation
rick@todengine.org

> Kinda going overboard aren't they? If
> someone breaks into your house do you then
> become a hermit and stop having contact with
> ALL humans?

Fair point. The horn & whistle fraternity is boiling mad at the constant accusations. What they DO know is that far too many truckers have been asking where to get those "really loud" horns and how to hide them from the cops when mounting them. As I recall, SMS services several industrial parks--all of whom must have truckers rolling through.

Indeed, one horn restoration specialist refurbished several of the horns that were stolen from SMS.

At least one railroad of my acquaintance, also in a heavy industrial area with a lot of trucks, has privately asked if there was a way to isolate the horns and charge them with enough voltage to maim any thieves. Meanwhile, they're taking their chances with plain single-note Leslies that they hope the thieves will pass on, and keeping their locos moving or parked next to an active major yard. The welding may come soon.

Are the patents on the currently used horns still in effect? Could it be possible or practical to produce reproductions of the now collectible horns for sale? Collectors wouldn't be interested in stealing the knockoffs, and if they were sold at a low enough price then the risk wouldnt be worth it to steal them.

Collectors have driven the prices of horns up so much that it is worth it to attempt to steal them. Where else can you, for a few minutes work, bag an item worth a thousand dollars? And its sitting there right in the open, in a dimly lit location out in the middle of nowhere.

If there is truly a demand for locomotive horns by truckers, then selling knockoffs direct to them might satisfy the demand.

Just a thought.

Tod Engine Foundation
rick@todengine.org

In Re:

> So, what is the result of this action by a
> thug or a group of thugs? The railroad has
> posted a NO-Railfan policy. The last Field
> day was really the Last One....EVER.... No
> more open houses, tours or friendly
> employees.

The institution of a no-railfan policy by the SMS strikes me as similar to that of the harsh anti-railfan policies adopted by Class 1 railroads after 9/11/01. Angrily dismissing those who approach the office for permission to photograph locomotives and dismissing/calling the police on those who photograph the locomotives from public property along the right of way (as is done along both the Escanaba & Lake Superior and the Kansas City Southern) does little to protect the railroad from criminals who strike in the dead of night and have little regard for the law. The looting of a train carrying military equipment this past March on the BNSF illustrates this. While a no-railfan policy is easy, it is no substitute for more effective (and more expensive) measures such as the construction of a secure engine storage facility and nightly patrols.

Tom Cornillie

rrhistorian@hotmail.com

> At least one railroad of my acquaintance,
> also in a heavy industrial area with a lot
> of trucks, has privately asked if there was
> a way to isolate the horns and charge them
> with enough voltage to maim any thieves.

1. BE AWARE ... setting of any "traps" will bring an often successful lawsuit against the trapper!

2. After having two single note hooters stolen, I don't see where this would help.

lamontdc@adelphia.net

> Are the patents on the currently used horns
> still in effect? Could it be possible or
> practical to produce reproductions of the
> now collectible horns for sale? Collectors
> wouldn't be interested in stealing the
> knockoffs, and if they were sold at a low
> enough price then the risk wouldnt be worth
> it to steal them.

The fact of the matter is that the actual production cost of a new air horn, off the shelf to the RR or manufacturer, is still in four digits. The prices on eBay for a Nathan K5LA is actually close to the going price for a short line to acquire the same horn through legitimate channels. It's NOT the same as producing cast resin replicas of builders' plates.

> If there is truly a demand for locomotive
> horns by truckers, then selling knockoffs
> direct to them might satisfy the demand.

It's been done. There are several manufacturers making chrome knock-offs of both locomotive-style chime sets and steam whistles (resembling a Hancock air whistle), which operate at far lower air volumes and fit right on a standard truck system with no additional air lines or tanks needed. And they cost less, to boot. Not only that, many jurisdictions will arrest truckers with railroad-sized horns and confiscate the horns, using any law in the book they can find, if they spot them. The horns are just TOO loud for highway use.

But no. Apparently (as near as we can tell), truckers engage in air-horn one-up-manship and swaggering the same way that others make up for their personal equipment inadequacies with a V-8 or V-12 engine in a car, or owning the loudest motorcycle.

> 1. BE AWARE ... setting of any
> "traps" will bring an often
> successful lawsuit against the trapper!

This railroad is angry enough to take their chances. Note that I said "maim", not kill. Besides, they just happen to have an adjacent waterway to dump the body into. 2. After having two single note hooters
> stolen, I don't see where this would help.

*groan*........... Okay, how about I round up a great source of those ugly twin-horn Westinghouse AA-2's? Used on a lot of electric MUs and bilevel commuter trains years ago, they look positively like a toy--no trucker would take them seriously, let alone take them!!

> The fact of the matter is that the actual
> production cost of a new air horn, off the
> shelf to the RR or manufacturer, is still in
> four digits. The prices on eBay for a Nathan
> K5LA is actually close to the going price
> for a short line to acquire the same horn
> through legitimate channels. It's NOT the
> same as producing cast resin replicas of
> builders' plates.

Sandy,

It has been two years, but the last time I checked at our storehouse for a K5LA horn, the price to the railroad was about $750.00 each. The two sold on eBay in the last month were within $100 of that, I do not know what Nathan wants to some pilgrim off the street to sell them a K5. Most of the regular three noters from others were going in the $300 range, so we are not quite talking four figures here yet.

I have purchased three noters legitimately from a scrapper in Wilmington, have the receipts. One is now on a Geep in the gravel quarry on the Shenendoah branch; and the other one is now in the collection of a Dodge dealer in Baltimore area, who traded it for the used Dodge pickup truck which is now the mechanical department vehicle at the B&O RR Museum. The horns cost me $150/ea. Look at the good legitimate trading has done.

The other thing to remember is, that the locomotive scrappers are no dummies; I used to do regular business with Napporano fifteen years ago. Hundreds of locomotives are being retired out west, especially six axle stuff that is not suitable for shortlines; which means there is a fairly large legitimate population of air horns coming into the market. $300 to the buff market vs $10 aluminum scrap, what do you think they are going to do?

Maybe I am not so indignant because bell/whistle theft is nil on the railroad I work for. But I also think having 25,000 volts two feet above the roofs of most of the equipment, most of the time, has something to do with that also!

Steve Zuiderveen



MARC K5LA Soundbite
SZuidervee@aol.com

> It has been two years, but the last time I
> checked at our storehouse for a K5LA horn,
> the price to the railroad was about $750.00
> each.

*Two words: "Quantity Discount".

The two sold on eBay in the last month
> were within $100 of that, I do not know what
> Nathan wants to some pilgrim off the street
> to sell them a K5.

*I have never tried to do so, but the word from the horn and whistle fraternity is that both Leslie Controls and Nathan are like EMD in that they carefully control who they deal with--in other words, if you don't have an account, they don't want to deal with you. This even extends to spare parts like gaskets and diaphragms (one collector is doinga brisk business fabricating both for the secondary market, and word is that old paper milk cartons make great substitutes for one certain part that the builders charge many dollars for!). This also helps to explain why truckers are "forced" to steal, rather than walk into a truck stop and buy the real thing.

> I have purchased three noters legitimately
> from a scrapper in Wilmington, have the
> receipts. One is now on a Geep in the gravel
> quarry on the Shenendoah branch; and the
> other one is now in the collection of a
> Dodge dealer in Baltimore area, who traded
> it for the used Dodge pickup truck which is
> now the mechanical department vehicle at the
> B&O RR Museum. The horns cost me
> $150/ea. Look at the good legitimate trading
> has done.

*Bravo! You at least got that scrapper to talk to you.

> The other thing to remember is, that the
> locomotive scrappers are no dummies; I used
> to do regular business with Napporano
> fifteen years ago. Hundreds of locomotives
> are being retired out west, especially six
> axle stuff that is not suitable for
> shortlines; which means there is a fairly
> large legitimate population of air horns
> coming into the market. $300 to the buff
> market vs $10 aluminum scrap, what do you
> think they are going to do?

*More accurately, $300 to the railroad if need be. Right now I'm in the middle of brokering a deal between a locomotive rebuilder and a horn refurbisher in hopes of getting some decent horns on the market. Also, one of the frequent sellers on eBay is known to have an "in" with Cycle Systems in Roanoke; he dealt horns to that fraternity for years before eBay came along.

> Maybe I am not so indignant because
> bell/whistle theft is nil on the railroad I
> work for. But I also think having 25,000
> volts two feet above the roofs of most of
> the equipment, most of the time, has
> something to do with that also!

*And Amtrak, MARC, NJ Transit, etc. has a pretty good policy of not leaving equipment sitting in an easily-accessible place, either--unlike SMS and quite a few other parties.

The demand for loud horns on trucks actually has very little to do with one upmanship.

It has MUCH more to do with oblivious drivers of little cars who do stupid things like cut trucks off so close that the driver can't even see them for the engine cowling, try to pass on the right when a truck is in the pricess of trying to swing wide enough to make a sharp right turn, try to crowd trucks on ramps (doesn't anybody understand what "yield" means anymore?), etc. etc, etc. These things are happening more and more often.

Factory air horns only get angry looks, and perhaps a flying finger -- Therefore many truckers actually use them with the HOPE that the extra volume of the loco horns will scare the bejesus out of a few nincompoops -- enough that they'll think twice the next time.


Iron Fever Expo

> *groan*........... Okay, how about I round
> up a great source of those ugly twin-horn
> Westinghouse AA-2's? Used on a lot of
> electric MUs and bilevel commuter trains
> years ago, they look positively like a
> toy--no trucker would take them seriously,
> let alone take them!!

Sounds like a good idea!
One of the alternatives we have used for something like a twin horn strombos is a bracket that hooks over the hand rail and a quick disconnect on the air hose ...click, click and it goes home with ya !

lamontdc@adelphia.net

We lost a truck air horn on our Plasser crane between June 25 - June 28. The crane is locked inside a fenced compound. There is crawl space under the track gates. The horn was installed about 18 months ago and not original to the equipment.

National Capital Trolley Museum

> The demand for loud horns on trucks actually
> has very little to do with one upmanship.

*Balderdash.

You can indeed justify wanting a louder horn for safety reasons, just as motorcyclists often want loud bikes because a quiet bike is likely to be sideswiped or cut off. One fire department I know of has a Nathan P5 set on their rescue truck, justifying its existence as necessary to sound an evacuation warning for firefighters. They told me outright that its volume is illegal for road use, although they acknowledge using it to clear an intersection more than once.

Nonetheless, the majority of jurisdictions DO have (or so I'm told) laws on the books regulating the volume of truck horns. Even worse, I've witnessed trials of the loud "train horn" truck horns side by side with real Nathans and Leslies, and they will do the job necessary without breaking the law. Otherwise, why would truckers have to HIDE the real railroad horns from the police?

To be honest, tuning and adjustment of ANY air horn will make a vast improvement in sound quality and decibel level. Maybe the truckers just need to start spending their money on better craftmanship.

lner4472@bcpl.net

> *Balderdash.

Really? How many truck drivers do you know? My father and uncle BOTH used to be independent steel haulers. There are still a lot of family friends in the biz.

Why do they hide them? Perhaps to save themselves from harassment until they are needed (There are many police officers feel big trucks are fair game because they know the guy isn't local and probably won't come back to fight a questionable ticket.) And perhaps keep them from being liberated. Conversely, mounted low on the right side frame rail is exactly where they'll do the MOST good most often.

BTW: All the drivers I know who have them PURCHASED them from railfans, resellers, etc.

It is EASY to blame the other guy, harder to look for the bums within your own ranks. A lot of rails LIKE to look down on truckers - blaiming them for the decline of the RRs - They are mostly just regular guys trying to make a living.

And since YOU brought it up, I don't know HOW many times I've HEARD a motorcycle that I couldn't see because he was in my blind spot. Safer or just obnoxious? I guess its all depends on the specific situation.