I am aware there are many steamers needing love and a second chance at life, however the cost of a operational overhaul now regularly are over 1 million bucks. Has there been discussion about a generic mass producible locomotive for less? Say a 2-8-0 similar to the UP Harriman design? That would help financially strapped tourist lines to be able to consider steam. This is more for discussion about how, when, why, and who.

I can think of several tourist lines that would be interested in the idea if a affordable and capable locomotive were offered. There are companies that can build boilers. For tourist use making modern updates and fuel type would help these lines. A firebox that can burn propane, veg oil, or petroleum oil would be a good idea. A medium size 2-8-0 would haul most tourist trains and if the price was low enough, possibly a larger, modified 2-8-0 or 2-8-2 could be offered

I'll start off by saying that the following is my own non-professional opinion. Take that for what it's worth.
Is there really enough of a market for this to "mass produce" steam locomotives of any design? Even if there were enough tourist lines who were seriously considering steam and/or actually have adequate facilities to operate and maintain said locomotives, I don't see how something like a repro consolidation would ultimately save much money over a restoration. A lot of tourist operations have been favoring tank engines or very small tender engines as candidates for restoration, which while they still require cubic feet of money, would have to be more economical to restore. Citing the recent discussion of the Kloke locomotives, it was around two million dollars for a new American, which in comparison to even the smallest 2-8-0 is not a large engine. How many railroads actually have the desire to run steam? Some of the first gen diesels are rapidly becoming harder and harder to find, and realistically the days of the general public remembering steam are coming to a close. While a cookie cutter steam design sounds like a great idea, unless it has significant benefits over the real thing for an exponentially lower price, I think it may be a hard sell for most.

I have no expertise or experience at all in this field but my gut feeling is that the average unwanted park engine is nearly always going to work out cheaper unless there are some really serious defects in which case you'd move on to another candidate unless you were deep into it before they were discovered. There is simply not enough economies of scale to alter this.

I think you are about 40-50 years too late. The time for a "global" design has passed, both in terms of technology and attitude toward fossil fuel use.

Thirty years ago J. David Conrad went to a lot of effort to make brand new Chinese "SY" 2-8-2's FRA compliant, and even so, only two locomotives made it to this country. The economic case for steam has not improved since then. The market simply isn't there.

Alan Maples

Alan is right, the time has passed. No ''financially strapped'' tourist line is going to be able to afford 2 million, 1 million or even 100K, just per your definition of "financially strapped''. I looked into an SY on behalf of an outfit that I was involved with, almost thirty years ago. We could have had an overhauled SY delivered to an East Coast port for $335,000. This was an operator that was running unit freight trains three days a week, but they could not justify the expense, even with their freight traffic base.

What I personally think is needed are simple to maintain, comfortable coaches; open windows (Adlake or similar), walkover seats, roller bearings, ABDW brakes, modern couplers and draft gear, a simple heating system (not HEP electric), LED lighting (in old looking fixtures), etc., etc.- I think there would be a market for something like this, IF, and it's a big IF, several/many operators agree on the need and pool orders. Such a purchasing strategy is used, sometimes, by the commuter agencies.

This is another good candidate for a FAQ. Building new locomotives, and new boilers, was discussed frequently in the early years of this board. There was quite a bit of discussion between 2001 and 2004, culminating in a lengthy thread about need for steam power for Georgetown Loop. Several posters brought up the idea of a standard 2-8-0 design being a good size for most tourist railroads.

In a 2004 Georgetown Loop thread, we have the following quotes, first by Dave Lathrop:

This was followed by discussion and reality checks by several folks, including this by David Hamley:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1394
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2053
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2045
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2378
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2857
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4717
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10565 (This is the 2004 Georgetown Loop new locomotive thread)

Then the idea got remembered a year later in another thread on the Loop:
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18096

It is interesting that this new thread is picking up where the discussion left of 15 years ago. I am sure replica/new locomotives have been discussed many times since, but I do not recall the mass production idea coming up for a while. There may have even been an article written for the site with the same topic.
Olin

Find a way to run one on hemp and maybe you are onto something.

I’m sure Kloke would build you a 2-8-0 if you wanted one. A tourist line that wanted to make a (relatively) small investment in steam would probably be better off talking to age of steam, grammlings, or others about renting a locomotive.

.

Multipower International, Inc. can fix you up with a used or rebuilt Chinese steam locomotive.
http://www.multipowerinternational.com/locomotives.html

I agree that while it's never been easier to build a steam locomotive technically, it's seldom been less economically feasible to do so. Unless, of course....... you need to build or replicate a specific steam locomotive for a specific purpose. Somebody wanted a Kloke 4-4-0, and somebody else is (slowly) building a replica of the V&T Lyon. Generic 2-8-0s aren't that thin on the ground. MNGRR is doing a lot of replication, including covered bridges. If something specific is needed by a well funded organization or individual for a specific purpose - go for it. Modern materials, welding and cutting technologies, and engineering options make it much easier than it was a century ago.

Minor point of order:
They did not "replicate" a covered bridge. They offered a place to go for an authentic wooden "covered bridge" (technically a boxed pony truss) that had been removed, disassembled, and restored (with some new parts) at a university campus at another location.

Also, the institution in question with the boxed pony truss bridge and several replica equipment projects in the works is the WW&F Railway Museum, *not* the Maine Narrow Gauge RR (though the two museums do work closely with each other).

-Philip Marshall

Mea Culpa gentlemen - correct on both counts. Apologies for picking the wrong suspect out of the lineup.