The fat lady has sung.

The joint 2003 NRHS/R&LHS Convention in Baltimore had been structured around the Fair of the Iron Horse at the B&O Museum, which of course was cancelled after the collapse of the roundhouse roof on Feb. 17th. As a result, of the 1100+ pre-registered attendees (at $35-50 just to pre-register), only 550-600 actually attended, according to rumors I heard from good sources. I also heard reports that the convention finished in the black, but just barely and in the last days before it began--helped no doubt by those non-refundable advanced registrations.

As far as I can tell, there weren't any Convention inadequacies or anything that went wrong that was anything the Convention staff could do anything about. Everything from the roundhouse collapse, the insurance debacles that kept the Fair from ever reaching any serious potential (like the Railfairs in Sacramento), high ticket prices, the relative lack of options once the Fair was cancelled (surrounded by NS, CSX, and Amtrak limits your options, MARC notwithstanding), to two delays on their mainline trips (the return of the Cumberland trip and the departure of the Harrisburg Circle trip from Harrisburg, the former delayed by Amtrak mechanical and staffing problems and the latter by a thunderstorm that knocked the signals out of whack and made the train creep through one area watching for fallen trees) were circumstances entirely beyond the control of the DC Chapter, and they are to be commended for being able to pull of the amount of activities they managed to produce. The only real gripe was the almost complete inability to get a decent photograph of Bennett Levin's PRR E8s that hauled the Harrisburg trip (along with an Amtrak P42 for extra HEP)--unless you chose not to ride the train and pay for it.

On the other hand, it was nice to see the extra effort made to provide something besides Amfleet and MARC cars. Mid America Car Leasing showed up with a fleet of vintage air-conditioned coaches from UP, SP, and Santa Fe, as did the Watauga Valley Chapter NRHS, providing the option of air-conditioned comfort or open Dutch doors and stifling humidity, at least on the Harrisburg Circle/Port Road trip. (Shhhhh--we're hoping NS officials besides the railfan yardmasters chasing the train didn't notice!)

Alexander D. Mitchell IV


lner4472@bcpl.net

> The fat lady has sung.

> The joint 2003 NRHS/R&LHS Convention in
> Baltimore had been structured around the
> Fair of the Iron Horse at the B&O
> Museum, which of course was cancelled after
> the collapse of the roundhouse roof on Feb.
> 17th. As a result, of the 1100+
> pre-registered attendees (at $35-50 just to
> pre-register), only 550-600 actually
> attended, according to rumors I heard from
> good sources. I also heard reports that the
> convention finished in the black, but just
> barely and in the last days before it
> began--helped no doubt by those
> non-refundable advanced registrations.

> As far as I can tell, there weren't any
> Convention inadequacies or anything that
> went wrong that was anything the Convention
> staff could do anything about. Everything
> from the roundhouse collapse, the insurance
> debacles that kept the Fair from ever
> reaching any serious potential (like the
> Railfairs in Sacramento), high ticket
> prices, the relative lack of options once
> the Fair was cancelled (surrounded by NS,
> CSX, and Amtrak limits your options, MARC
> notwithstanding), to two delays on their
> mainline trips (the return of the Cumberland
> trip and the departure of the Harrisburg
> Circle trip from Harrisburg, the former
> delayed by Amtrak mechanical and staffing
> problems and the latter by a thunderstorm
> that knocked the signals out of whack and
> made the train creep through one area
> watching for fallen trees) were
> circumstances entirely beyond the control of
> the DC Chapter, and they are to be commended
> for being able to pull of the amount of
> activities they managed to produce. The only
> real gripe was the almost complete inability
> to get a decent photograph of Bennett
> Levin's PRR E8s that hauled the Harrisburg
> trip (along with an Amtrak P42 for extra
> HEP)--unless you chose not to ride the train
> and pay for it.

> On the other hand, it was nice to see the
> extra effort made to provide something
> besides Amfleet and MARC cars. Mid America
> Car Leasing showed up with a fleet of
> vintage air-conditioned coaches from UP, SP,
> and Santa Fe, as did the Watauga Valley
> Chapter NRHS, providing the option of
> air-conditioned comfort or open Dutch doors
> and stifling humidity, at least on the
> Harrisburg Circle/Port Road trip.
> (Shhhhh--we're hoping NS officials besides
> the railfan yardmasters chasing the train
> didn't notice!)

> Alexander D. Mitchell IV
Mr. Mitchell, I was one of the dealers that attended the Railroadianna show at the hotel on Friday & Saturday and I must say that the Friday portion of the show which was for the conventioneers only, was well attended by them and they seemed to enjoy themselves. Although a lot of events had to be canceled, I think that most of the members made that best of things and seemed to be having a good time in spite of the drawbacks. Who knows, just maybe next year things will be better!
Bob Niblick

rrnut@prodigy.net

Perhaps a followup question would be the health of the NRHS in general. The membership has been declining for at least 10 years and many "national" positions remain vacant. A lot of chapters listed in the National Directory appear to be moribund. Many chapters (particularly in NS territory) seemed to only exist to sponsor NS steam excursions and now they have either dissappeared or are a shell of what they once were. Yet the National still pushes the concept of the massive mainline excursion. Efforts at preservation are spotty and seem to only exist at the chapter level.

Does anyone else see this as a model for failure? What is the vision for a different future?

hal700@futureworld.net

While I have no specific facts in hand, I privately suspect the same things about the R&LHS which has a great historical publication, even fewer chapters and members (than NRHS), and unattractive membership ads in the magazines. I view R&LHS as a more academic historical group and NRHS as a more activity-based historical group. Both have some chapters tied to museums.
I think the aging and decreasing membership trends are impacting R&LHS, NRHS, many RR museums, and probably even model railroading.
I'm not sure the hobby as a whole can reverse the apparent declining interest in railroads. The Big Steam Convention era is over for sure except for an occasional event like Railfair. That fact has been seriously discussed within the NRHS. The future may be more regional-based activities or activities which capitalize on local rail transit, museums, and tourist operations.

> Perhaps a followup question would be the
> health of the NRHS in general. The
> membership has been declining for at least
> 10 years and many "national"
> positions remain vacant. A lot of chapters
> listed in the National Directory appear to
> be moribund. Many chapters (particularly in
> NS territory) seemed to only exist to
> sponsor NS steam excursions and now they
> have either dissappeared or are a shell of
> what they once were. Yet the National still
> pushes the concept of the massive mainline
> excursion. Efforts at preservation are
> spotty and seem to only exist at the chapter
> level.

> Does anyone else see this as a model for
> failure? What is the vision for a different
> future?

Several thoughts:

The days of "photo-runbys" on the main line are finished. Not only liability issues, but also the need to keep the railroad fluid. It is a real problem that has been hashed over forever because those who pay to ride are viewed as supporting the pleasures of those who stand and shoot. But then memories last a lifetime, as do photgraphs. I enjoy the photographs because I never get to see "What God and man have wrought". I tried to post the schedules of the Deadhead moves of the E-8s on the NEC in both directions and was absolutely underwhelmed by the derth of photographers on the NEC on Sunday when the
E units, the Warrior Ridge and the Pennsylvania returned to Philadelphia. Some folks who took photos were kind enough to send them to me. (see optional URL)

The demographics of society membership surely raises some interesting challanges. For instance I notice the at the recent PRRTHS convention the enthusiastic younger members are mostly pretty sophisticated modelers, and use the society to build upon their own knowledge and that of other who actually remember the PRR to create a realistic operating enviourment for their "empires".

As the steam generation ages, both the NRHS and the R&LHS will be hard pressed to keep membership levels at the old levels. In the days when only Trains and Railroad were the railfan press the disemination of railroad information and culture was much more limited and the society's publications filled a real gap. Today the information technology is so vastly superior, that one cannot digest all the information that is available. Sure something will have to change at most "general" railfan organizations.

Anyway thanks to Dave Davies and Bob Vogel for sharing the action with all of us.




v-scarpitti@att.net

Try these, I hope they work!

http://community.webshots.com/album/79315190SlFiFt/1

http://members.cox.net/dbdavies/news/news.htm



v-scarpitti@att.net

I think the doom and gloom is a bit early. If you look at the steam directory from 25 years ago and today you will see there are loads more places to see and ride trains. The train hobby is alive and well. What you don't see is the bigtime mainline excursions but there are shortlines and museums a pleanty.

All of these extra places require members and folks going out to ride. I think the train hobby overall has grown and will keep doing so for the future. There are more locomotives all dressed up with no place to go than ever before. These locomotives did not get that way due to lack of people willing to help out.

While many of us long for that high speed excursion with dutch doors and P-70s we are offered an almost endless list of tourist trains that offer quality rides. What we should all be doing is buying tickets and riding those and supporting anything that resembles a mainline trip as they happen.

Just a couple of weeks ago CPR ran 2816 out of Toronto for a token fare of $25C. It was on the mainline and went at track speed, sorry but there were no open window cars but it was steam and on the mainline. This trip was great and those of you who missed it really missed out.

Just a few thoughts.

Tom

I was not trying to hang the crape, but certain segments of our hobby need help. TEA money has been the life support for many efforts and yes we are doing well in the "hands on" arena.

Thomas has brought a new generation to us and hopefully the museums and shortlines will keep the flame alive until we put a cap on the illegal profession.

Frankly, I was encouraged with the numbers that rode the trains last week.

With all the problems and pain of trying to run, the photos that I received of last weeks mini-Congo on the NEC sure made the effort worthwhile.


v-scarpitti@att.net

> Several thoughts:

> The days of "photo-runbys" on the
> main line are finished.

Is the possibility of using the high-level platforms at Lancaster + the middle tracks for a runby still open?

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

It is a good possibility here are the issues:

1. Timing

(a) As not to conflict with Keystone Service or 3 River/Pennsylvanian Service

(b) As to to impact schedule of special at the end points. For instance the ferry moves to Altoona for railfest occur at 3AM westbound, and after dark eastbound.

2. Exclusive occupancy of platform by excursion train riders.

3. Additional costs incurred by Ammtrak for police security at station. For instance when these special depart from HBG Amtrak brings in additional police as well as managenment. This all occurs on the weekend so that raises other issues.

4. Photo run-by adds about one hour to the trip start to finish. On the Rockville excursion it would have had some impact in the end time at HBG and as I said before the normal operating schedules might make the timing issues more critical.

At least the platform will solve the problems of people walking on the ballast!

v-scarpitti@att.net

Roger that; DC Chapter ran annual circle trips via Port Road one way, via HBG-PHL-BAL the other. Did runpast at Lancaster.

Good news is Amtrak can probably pencil in a time as Pennsylvanian and Keystones are reliable timekeepers; 40's not due until 4.38 PM.

Experience from when 440-441 ran is that HBG-BAL via PHL can be faster than via Port Road.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

At OERM, our volunteer corps has increased along with membership from 1400+ to nearly 2100 in 4-1/2 years. Thomas, of course, helped. Our difficulty is in finding folks to fill the officer ranks. We wrestle with recruiting from current non-volunteer members or growing someone from our existing volunteer ranks. Any suggestions?

wyld@sbcglobal.net

Having visited OREM several times this past winter, I was amazed at the scope and level of dedication of the management as well as the productivity of the members. You don't have a museum, you have an industrial enterprise! I wondered how you keep all the egos and all those with pet projects focused on the big picture without the petty squablling found elsewhere. Frankly I thought the operation was very professional, and most likely enormously time consuming for the officers (managers).

All I can say is that somehow your organization has figured something out. I don't know how much there is to improve as far as perception is concerned. What goes on internally might be another matter, but surely you are doing something RIGHT!



v-scarpitti@att.net

> At OERM, ... Our difficulty is in finding folks
> to fill the officer ranks. We wrestle with
> recruiting from current non-volunteer
> members or growing someone from our existing
> volunteer ranks. Any suggestions?

At most of the NorthEast trolley museums I belong
to, the problem is disouraging the non-insiders
and newer members from trying to run for office.
Electric City Trolley Museum Association no
longer has a surplus of candidates because it is
no longer an operating group, since it is now
seperate from the Electric City Trolley Museum,
which runs the cars.
My suggestion for Orange Empire is that they
convince younger people from the Eaast to move to
California!

104577.651@compuserv.com

Having talked to a number of knowledgable people in the hobby about these issues and problems, there seem to be some common themes as to what is wrong. Namely:

1) Diverse sources of information no longer make going to meetings necessary to stay up on what is happening.

2) The numerous hobby publications and web sites no longer make club newsletters that attractive a reason to join. Indeed, many club newsletters have largely become digests of news items and articles from other sources.

3) The insurance crisis and growing lack of cooperation by railroads themselves to deal with clubs and trip organizers is going to make it harder to expose young people to the railroad experience, especially with regards to steam. (If the Ohio Central had to give up it's public operation due to the economics, things look very bad for everyone else indeed). A major problem with the just completed NRHS convention was the slow response from the host railroads to commit to any trips at all. As late as February, the convention committee had not recieved confirmation for requested trips. Amazingly, they apparently got the best cooperation from NS - because they did not want to run steam or have any photo runbys on the Port Rd. trip.

The lack of regualar contact between the public and railroads only contributes to declining interest. Largely for liability and security concerns, most railroads would just as soon the public never interacts with them. This does not bode well for the future interest of youth in the hobby - think about the small numbers of people interested in things like canals or ridgid airships!

The situation is not helped by disasters like the Medina, Oh. tractor boiler explosion last year, and the growing reluctance of some state boiler inspectors' to look kindly on operating historic rivitted boilers. My understanding is that live steamers in many states are having trouble being allowed to operate publically, even though there have been no serious incidents.

Some of this is a matter of political turf. For years the live steamers in Baltimore were able to stay out of the hands of the state amusement ride authorities, especially while Don Shaefer was Mayor and Govenor, but some control freak inspector got bent out of shape that he didn't have jurisdiction over the minature train in the park and forced them under his control as an amusement "ride", even though the club had maintained it's status as an "educational re-creation" for years and never charged for rides - only accepted donations.

4) The closed nature of many organizations to newcomers and new ideas. Some real reform is needed in certain national organizations, and maybe in some local and regional ones as well. Things like Railcamp are a great start, but if national leadership is an insular "old boys club" that won't deal with new faces or ideas, then they are doomed to decline and irrelevancy.

The good news is that I see interest in the hobby and industry from younger fans, albeit in different ways than in the past, largely on the web, or among small unofficially organized groups. Those traditional organizations that seem to be thriving appear to fall into a couple of models.

First, there are clubs that are highly social in nature, and exist for regular gatherings of comradery and sharing of stories and photos or slides. They make a conscious effort to recruit new and younger members and are not necessarily aligned with any national organization.

Second are clubs that exist largely to preserve a particular site, collection or artifact. The future health of many of these groups is dependent on being able to operate their equipment.

Interest in things historic has long been a tough sell in this country for some reason. Those of us with a serious interest in whatever kind of history or preservation are a distinct minority, and it will probably always be so. There needs to be a serious stock taking among those in control of the national organizations to find ways to make themselves relavant to young fans. From what I saw in Baltimore last week, there is a very real possibility that there won't be an NRHS for me to get a 50 year pin from in 2026.

pww57@hotmail.com