Anyone taken a ride on the new double-decker trolley in Los Angeles? I saw it on a visit to the Grove, a large development at the Farmers Market in Los Angeles. I didn't get to ride because it was being used in the filming of a commercial. Apparently it has storage batteries and an induction circuit under the pavement to recharge the car when it is parked at the east end of the track. The website said it is built on the chasis of a 1950 trolley and was cobbled together by a former imagineer from Disney. I assume they are referring to a PCC car (kind of looked like Clark trucks). Anyone have any additional information about this car? We were wanting to do something similar with our boat tram, but I never thought to include an induction recharger.

Andy Nold

UTU Article on Grove Trolley
tnold@northtexastransport.org

Inductive charging is an interesting twist.

A couple years ago, I was approached by a battery bus salesman who wanted to sell batteries for trolleys, to "save the capital cost of overhead wire." Using the one car and one mile demonstration phase of the project as a test case, it made no economic sense - if the trolley was scrapped after one year, money would have been saved. The batteries would only manage two years worth of recharge cycles before being replaced, and the second set would raise the capital cost of the battery power to more than an overhead wire. No inclusion of cost to retrofit the already restored 600 VDC trolley was considered in these calculations.

The "real" system will be about 6 miles (projected) and take several cars to maintain reasonable headway. One overhead wire VS several sets of batteries - returns diminish almost exponentially as each additional car is added to the mix.

One car on a quarter mile at 5 MPH isn't the average transit system, whether historically styled or not. Could be a nice people mover and apparently is doing a nice job of it on the small scale according to the article. I'd like to learn more too.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Maybe battery powered rail will get better in the future.

Check this link, these guys chop a GP-9 (ok, as preservationists we can't approve)and turn it into a rail powered hybrid something like a Toyota Prius.

They claim a 10 year battery life.



superheater@rrmail.com

> Maybe battery powered rail will get better
> in the future.

I remember reading in a trade journal published before 1900 that they were still waiting for the promised miracle battery. Although we understand a little bit more about what makes them tick it is still the same old technology. At least a switching locomotive can use the battery weight for ballast while a mover of people (no longer a trolley) certainly could not benefit from hauling all that weight around. People certainly get uptight about ugly old overhead but it sure has a lot going for it.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

Hey Super, did you forget the Green Goat link or did I just miss it?

As for batteries, considering their weight and performance characteristics, they will not supplant overhead wire anytime soon. The key to this project is the induction charging circuit, which I assume will extend the life of the batteries. The boat tram is intended for a very short (+/- 2400 foot) circulator and was already converted for battery operation for use in testing with a fuel cell.

Ballard is doing some interesting things with fuel cells in B.C., but I think the cost is still prohibitive.

AN

> I remember reading in a trade journal
> published before 1900 that they were still
> waiting for the promised miracle battery.
> Although we understand a little bit more
> about what makes them tick it is still the
> same old technology. At least a switching
> locomotive can use the battery weight for
> ballast while a mover of people (no longer a
> trolley) certainly could not benefit from
> hauling all that weight around. People
> certainly get uptight about ugly old
> overhead but it sure has a lot going for it.


tnold@northtexastransport.org

Somehow I'm screwing this up.. isn't keeping link.. its railpower.com

Green Goat Link Link
Superheater@rrmail.com

About 15 years ago I lived a block from the square in downtown Concord, NC. Somewhere I got a copy of Stilgoe's METROPOLITAN CORRIDOR and recognized a photo showing a battery powered trolley turning at the square in Concord, on a line which ran from the railroad station at the bottom of the hill on Cabarrus Avenue up to Union Street. If memory serves, this was shortly before WWI but I could be wrong abut the date......

Anyhow, no vestige of the line remained so many decades later, but stories of the pasengers having to get out and push the car up the hill when the batteries ran down did survive. The operation was deemed a technological failure and didn't last two years.

Like Dennis says, nothing new here other than somewhat better batteries, but they still need to get much better and much cheaper before they will replace traditional power sources.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

There exists today, in Joplin , MO. , a battery -powered single-truck trolley, built in the early part of 1900's , I would guess, stored in a local residence backyard. It has been covered by a heavy tarp for over twenty years that I know of it. I do not know where it came from, but the guy in the house is not too friendly, so have never been able to carefully examine the car. Mr Fred Rogers, of Webb city, MO. knows where the car is and can direct someone to it, if interested. It was in excellent shape , last seen in 1999.

jmyers@dart.org