The old steam team was very much different from what it is now. They ran the steam engine in the Summer (or other special events) and then parked it. If it needed some work they would take care of it. But the steam locomotives were getting a minimal amount of attention. After the Summer runs were over they had normal jobs with the Union Pacific. Steve lee was a locomotive engineer on local freight runs. I don't remember what Bob was doing but something similar.

It wasn't a dedicated group of people working on these steam locomotives year round like it is now. If they needed a year for a overhaul they would do it but otherwise if it wasn't broke leave it alone. One of the problems of the #3985 is that it has yet to have a thorough overhaul. The old steam crew did a good job keeping it running but they sure weren't going to do anything more to it then they had to. In all honesty if you are close to retirement, are you going to overhaul a massive steam locomotive for the next guy? No way.

As far as the Big Boy and Steve lee goes. I am sure he didn't want that enormous amount of hard, dirty, work rebuilding that massive steam locomotive. I am sure none of them did. I know he loved operating the steam locomotives. Working on them year round probably not.

Again I have to differ with the opinion that Steve didn't want to mess with a Big Boy.
He approached Omaha and asked to "do" the 4023. He was told he could have it, but he couldn't spend any money on it. What's the use? It later was moved up the hill to where nobody can get it now. He wouldn't have asked if he wasn't serious.
As for when Summer was over, everything went dormant. Again, not true. When do you think the maintenance work was done? Steve was in charge and plenty busy planning engine/car/diesel work and working on upcoming trip logistics.
I suppose the time that I fired 3985 from St. Louis to Jefferson City, MO in 19 degree weather one Feb was just a dream. Super Bowl trips? They ran in the winter also.
Steam engines ran all year long, in the rain, snow and cold weather. You can look it up.
Get your facts straight.

Mr. Claytor and his brother do not get enough credit for what they did, which was essentially give birth to the modern steam preservation movement. Without them, there would be NO main line steam ANYWHERE in the US. The birth of the mainline steam operations was the ferry move of Southern Railway 4501 from Stearns, Kentucky to Chattanooga, Tennessee under her own power-something that Mr. Merriman himself doubted would happen. He appealed to the powers that were at the Southern for the ferry move on the remote hope that they might even consider the request. Most folks do not realize that TVRM always had a highway move as Plan B for the expected refusal.

It is said that when Mr. Brosnan heard of the request from Mr. Merriman, he was quoted as saying "there was no way in hell that any goddamned steam locomotive was going to operate over the Third Division of the CNO&TP, regardless of who previously owned it." The Southern was a modern railroad, pioneering railroading technology and a steam locomotive had no place on Brosnan's Southern. Graham Claytor intervened and convinced Mr. Brosnan to permit the one time move. The railroad's PR men noticed the attention that the steam locomotive drew on that ferry move and that gave main line its foothold. Brosnan had just invested millions of dollars in improvements on the Third Division and could visualize the damage that a steam locomotive would do to the new railroad.

I totally agree with this and the OP. I too have heard all the same replies. "It can only run 100 miles from Cheyenne and back." No place to run it. Etc. At the time, I said to myself, "Well they were able to get from New York to St. Louis back in they day, what is different. To be honest, I didn't know for sure, so I didn't call it out. The statement about not listening to only negative people has a lot of truth to it.

Steve

I'm always fascinated how RYPN is a journey into the collective psyche of those of in the industry and how our line-of-reasoning makes us both successful in what we do but can also be the biggest impediment. If you've read "The Men Who Love Trains" you quickly realize all of the individuals discussed were businessmen first (some better than others), railroaders second (or perhaps tied for first) and railfans (some) third. Their number one goal was to turn a profit. Therefore, the same logic applies here.

Even if the Big Boy restoration cost $10 million, the free, positive press UP already realized is a marketers dream. For instance, a 30-second commercial during the regular NFL season averages about $500,000 depending on the game. Big Boy's restoration, therefore, is 20 commercials. Or, two Superbowl spots. With social media platforms, I guarantee Union Pacific's name has shown up in more photos than any other U.S. railroad. In addition, you now have a type of "Oval Office" environment that can be used for all types of stakeholders. When president's want to instill a sense of "awe" in individuals they're attempting to control, they invite them to the Oval Office. I have to imagine regardless of whether or not one has an affinity for trains, a ride in the cab of Big Boy would be something you might remember for a year or two.

The point is, we are attempting to apply preservation logic to a business investment and the two are somewhat antithetical to one another. Restoring the Big Boy says to shippers, investors, politicians and communities throughout the areas served by UP we were here in the beginning, we are here now, and we'll be here in the future - buy our stocks, use our railroad, support our agendas.

My other version of "It can't be done!" is repair to the UP 838. I know it was used as a parts source, but it has also not been sitting outside for 50 years. In this day of being able to make almost anything, I doubt that anything that has been taken off of it could not be resourced some how and put back in proper order. Just my $.02

Steve

Indeed, anything CAN be done. We can even build new engines.

But can we justify it? Can we convince people to put money and effort into it? Can we convince a main line railroad to let us run on their property?

In this particular case, can Union Pacific justify having a fourth large engine, and a duplicate of one that's running now?

Could they justify rebuilding a second Big Boy?

These are the sorts of questions we need to be able to answer. These are the issues we need to convince people of.

And that can be harder than casting a new frame and rolling a new boiler.

True. Look at locomotive preservation in the United Kingdom. They started with building one new main line locomotive (Tornado) at the turn of the century. Now I count at four new build "lost class" locomotives under construction. Seems that they've found a way to justify building new locomotives to their subscribers.

Current UK situation is somewhat more than 4, and this website lists 20(!) different standard gauge ones.......
https://newbuildsteam.com/
However, just how many of those actually get completed is rather a moot point, and there has recently been an announcement of an additional project for an early 1900's 4-4-0 by the group who have almost completed the Brighton "Atlantic" on the Bluebell Railway.
In addition, there are a few narrow gauge ones ongoing as well, such as this one....
https://www.southwoldrailway.co.uk/trus ... o-3-blyth/
which is making very good progress at the moment.

Where there's a will, there's a way. That and even the locomotives that get partially completed have the potential to be completed by a successive owner or organization. I would also note that it appears that these efforts are less dependent on well heeled subscribers than efforts in the States. You can get more subscribers and raise more funds by offering exclusive benefits (subscriber only events) and keeping the basic subscription rates at affordable levels. You also have the benefit that a subscription is not a one time donation.

A friends said it best recently, when he said that the British Tornado new steam locomotive showed him anything was possible, and 4014 getting into steam cementend the idea in his mind.Well, there's a brand awareness in the public that UP didn't have prior to May of this year (a co-worker who knew nothing about trains was asking me questions right after 4014's first run happened, all excited about something that big steaming for the first time since the 50s) but wouldn't they measure PR success with how they reach shippers? I don't know either way.

I think reaching their shippers is only a part of the equation. While having goods to move is obviously the first goal of any freight railroad, creating a supportive political environment in addition to attracting investors is equally as important.

I think though we're remiss in attempting to compare the U.S. and British preservation movements. Capitalism drove the restoration of the 4014, as it did the 611, with help from those in a position of power being sympathetic AND having the marketing department behind them. Brit's have a sense of history that can only be understood with not only being the patriarch of modern industrialization but the nostalgia of once controlling an empire on which the sun never set.

Who cares about reaching shippers? In today's environment, if it's going to go by rail, it's going to go on the railroad the shipper, or consignee, is served by. Not a lot of choice there. If there is a closely targeted audience, it is potential shippers, who look for all the world like you or me until they are identified. Possibly, some decision makers who never considered shipping by rail will get the idea that if this company can flawlessly pull off the restoration and operation of a long dormant antique, they may have the wherewithal to handle our product.

But it goes far beyond that. Everybody that ships knows the railroads exist. It's all the people stuck at the crossing during their morning commute who wonder why they exist, and why shouldn't they be done away with. This sort of public relations campaign aimed at the general public is really more important today, promoting good will so the public doesn't automatically take the position that railroads do nothing but inconvenience us, so therefore they are bad, and should be fought on any issue, anywhere, anytime.

Yes. Dennis gets it. Don’t forget that all of those towns and states have political leaders who can make life easier or more difficult for the railroadss that travel through them. My first time chasing the 844 the governor of Arkansas was in the cab and members of his staff were being wined and dined on the train.

While not the goal of the big boy, it also helps with employee morale. Seeing the heritage of the company you work for can go along way. I Saw lots of UP employees getting photos with their family in front of the engine in Omaha, Boone, and Mason City this week.