I thought the British were more civilized than us. Apparently not at this location. Hard to believe such behavior in the name of railway preservation. See below:

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/scotland.cfm?id=769302003
ryarger@rypn.org

> I thought the British were more civilized
> than us. Apparently not at this location.
> Hard to believe such behavior in the name of
> railway preservation. See below:

Well, it does say it happened in Scotland. Both Scots and British are known for their stubbornness (I can say that because I have both flavors of blood in my veins). :o)

That said... haven't been in railway preservation very long, have you? Such squabbles are actually pretty common (even on this side of the pond), although I'll admit this seems to be an exceptional instance.

Remember, the only thing the membership of most preservation groups have in common is an interest in trains. The more diverse the membership, the more likely personality conflicts become. It's incumbent on the group's leadership to recognize this and MAKE people get along with each other. This means listening to everybody and coming up with compromise solutions that address everyone's concerns.

SCRM goes through a major internal conflict every few years. I have to admit that I'm usually one of the combatants, since I tend to have strong opinions and am also extremely stubborn (see above about my Scotch and English blood). Fortunately, we've always had strong leaders at SCRM who have been able to make the people I disagree with see the error of their ways. :o)

The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@compuzone.net

There is an online mail list for a shortline/toruist railroad that is used to vent squabbles that constantly break out from employees and volunteers. The name of the rr is not important.

Suffice it to say the list is used for the typical foul-mouthed abuse, insulting rail buffs while simultaneous looking for volunteers, insulting management, openly mocking nearby preservation groups and so on. The justifucation was that all that kind of talk was "real railroadin" and anyone who didn't abuse everyone else was a sissy foamer.

The part that both saddened and astounded me was that this was being done on a public Internet message board using real names. Stunning.

Since the organization is a business, not a museum, I would assume that senior management has no idea what is being written online in the rr's name. Apparently, not only do internal squabbles blind people to the internal damage, they also obscure libel, external damage and the basic rules of common decency.

In this particular case, I know the line lost out on a chance to bid for a charter because the group sponsoring the event was turned off by the decidedly anti-family atmosphere expressed on the Internet.

Yet another example of our brethern ignoring the basic rules of marketing and public facing communications.

I was sorry to read about these two groups acting in such a way. I always think if all cooperation between groups in the UK.

I had the pleasure of visiting the UK several years ago. I was impressed to see their level of dedication to preservation and also their willingness to help other organizations.

It's common in the UK for steam locomotives to be loaned, leased or just visit different other outfits, especially if a railway is short an engine. I recall the example of the North Yorkshire and Moors Railway loaning out an 0-6-0T that was off season power for them, to an smaller line. The engine was of little use to NYMR during the main season due to the length of their trains. I don't recall any compensation back to the NYMR. The other line just paid for the over the road transport of the tank engine.

I could sight many more examples of cooperation, but needless to say it's whole different game over there for many reasons. It is not really just a "people issue", it is also conditions that prevail. Smaller locomotives, different regulations, goverment funds etc...

-Alan Levy

alanl759@aol.com

> I was sorry to read about these two groups
> acting in such a way. I always think if all
> cooperation between groups in the UK.

> I had the pleasure of visiting the UK
> several years ago. I was impressed to see
> their level of dedication to preservation
> and also their willingness to help other
> organizations.

> It's common in the UK for steam locomotives
> to be loaned, leased or just visit different
> other outfits, especially if a railway is
> short an engine. I recall the example of the
> North Yorkshire and Moors Railway loaning
> out an 0-6-0T that was off season power for
> them, to an smaller line. The engine was of
> little use to NYMR during the main season
> due to the length of their trains. I don't
> recall any compensation back to the NYMR.
> The other line just paid for the over the
> road transport of the tank engine.

> I could sight many more examples of
> cooperation, but needless to say it's whole
> different game over there for many reasons.
> It is not really just a "people
> issue", it is also conditions that
> prevail. Smaller locomotives, different
> regulations, goverment funds etc...

> -Alan Levy

Maybe it was just part of the filming for a new Monty Python movie called "The Trainspotters"?!

Don C.

milw261@sbcglobal.net

> There is an online mail list for a
> shortline/toruist railroad that is used to
> vent squabbles that constantly break out
> from employees and volunteers. The name of
> the rr is not important.

> Suffice it to say the list is used for the
> typical foul-mouthed abuse, insulting rail
> buffs while simultaneous looking for
> volunteers, insulting management, openly
> mocking nearby preservation groups and so
> on.

Mr. Davis,

Please contact me off list. I know of which list and RR you speak. Knowing people on both sides of the story/issue, I'd like to discuss some of your comments off list. You can use my email address listed on this page.

Fiv4HghStk@aol.com

although not recently, the US only has a history of cutting up steam engines over personal disputes.


Wowak.Railfan.Net
mrwowak@yahoo.com

> There is an online mail list for a
> shortline/toruist railroad that is used to
> vent squabbles that constantly break out
> from employees and volunteers. The name of
> the rr is not important.

For a brief time, the weekly email newsletter about SCRM that I send out was such a discussion list. Within a couple months, the Museum complained about the online squabbles and I was forced to convert the list to a newsletter.

I can't understand why discussions on the Internet seem to turn nasty so easily. As soon as I presented topics on the short-lived SCRM discussion forum, the complaints and personal attacks blazed away. "Things are too disorganized," "So-and-so is trying to take over," "They won't let me play with the engine..." I tried to keep things civil but failed miserably. Hence the evolution of my weekly newsletter. (see groups.yahoo.com/scrm-list if you want to subscribe)

The only online discussion forum for a railroad that seems to remain relatively civil (most of the time, not always) is Chris Coleman's EBT list. Even that has had a few flame wars in the past, although not recently.

The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@compuzone.net

I have removed a response to Mr. Conrad by Kerry Smith; Mr. Smith's response was in the nature of a flame or personal attack, which is not permitted in this forum.

I direct readers to the Guidelines and Rules link at the top of the Interchange home page for an explanation of our rules of the road.


eledbetter@rypn.org