I have to laugh when people say a diesel engine won't throw sparks. I was railfanning in Streator IL where I live in 1992 when the Santa Fe was power short and I mean short on power. They were throwing anything that could move onto trains to get them down the road. I mean we were seeing GP20's hooked up with GP60M's on the 199 for a bit. However one night a friend and I were at the depot when I heard on the scanner the engineer of another WB going we got that GP9 running again should be a fun show leaving Streator. We were south of town where they sped up near a Grocery Warehouse. Sure enough here comes a double stacker GP60M leading GP9 second a pair of 60B's and trailing last a SF30c facing the wrong way. Right before he passed us we heard the engines go to notch 8 and that GP 9 must have cleared out her manifolds in a hurry. She blew her spark arresters clean off and started throwing sparks and flames about 4 feet from the quad stacks on top for about 30 seconds then cleared up. 3 minutes later we hear him on the radio going I want a replacement engine at Fort Madison if possible for that GP9 it just died again. The power desk asked him to restart it if possible he went not going to happen it chucked a rod out of the block. Power desk went we will try however nothing at this time.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... ific-no-18


"DURANGO, Colo. — Seventy volunteers of the Carson & Colorado Railway got to ride behind Southern Pacific No. 18 on Aug. 23 as it made its way from Durango to Silverton, Colo. The private excursion was hosted by Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad, which has been leasing the 4-6-0 oil-burning locomotive built by Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1911.

The D&SNGR is converting its Baldwin 2-8-2 No. 493 from coal to oil to use along its 46-mile route from Durango to Silverton, during times of high fire danger. The railroad leased No. 18 to gain experience on the operation of oil-burning locomotives. The lease expires in September, and the engine will be returned to its home in California in October. The last public excursion for SP No. 18 occurred Aug. 24."

I sure wish they had given us a few more chances to ride behind #18. I bought a ticket for the broken piston trip but my flight to Durango got cancelled so I missed that trip (thanks American!).

I wonder if she will run for the fall photo special?

Not surprising. From what I understand SWs are pretty good at building up a good combination of carbon and unburned fuel in their exhaust manifolds when they're not worked too hard that can become, well, quite interesting exhaust.

When worked hard the non-turbocharged EMD engines are no worse than others for starting fires. In low-load service they are prone to building up oily crud in the exhaust manifold, which is then heated up, broken loose, and expelled as chunks of burning carbon when the engine is worked hard again.

After two well-publicized fires in Alberta some years ago CN actually banned non-turbocharged EMD units from road service in our Western Region (Thunder Bay to the west coast). And a bulletin was put out instructing yard crews to rev the engine(s) in a high throttle position for 15 minutes, or until the exhaust clears, before starting work.

Turbocharged engines can start fires too, I've seen various GE's and EMD 710 engines put out some amazing spark/flamethrower shows on several occasions.

Interesting article on the use of a micro lubricant in diesel locomotives to reduce one cause of line-side fires.

https://www.railwayage.com/mechanical/locomotives/no-soup-no-fires-no-fines/

I wouldn't touch it with an 11' pole. All motor oil is "micro" or "nano-technology" (BTW, micro and nano are measurements of size, not oil properties that fill in metal pores but it sure sounds cool). Use the recommended oil that's gone through all the ASTM testing for known results. If it has zinc in it, you gotcha a problem using it in an EMD with silver-bearing alloy bearings. Most additives or treatments are marketing BS. Ask for a copy the ASTM test results before you dump it in the crankcase. Just sayin'....

Key is to post the whole report from Tribologix, including listings for any putative damage or wear to the EMD-specific bearing metallurgy. Or perhaps some of us tribology nerds could chip in to have a service like Blackstone do a neutral third-party analysis at a reasonable interval.

Something doesn't add up here. In the fourth paragraph, it states that Omnitrax started using this lubricant TWO years ago. But the last paragraph states that they examined bearing that had seen SEVEN year of service. Two is not seven. Or were those bearings from some other users locomotives? (Or did I just fail reading comprehension?)

Contributing to further thread drift.... The zMax makers and three or four other similar companies got thumped by the FTC some years back for deceptive advertising. I can dig them up and post it here but it doesn't further my point. The amount of engineering that goes into specific lubricants pretty much covers all your bases. Some may be a little bit better than others but they all must pass minimum ASTM testing requirements. Adding stuff to your oil changes its chemistry and properties possibly to your detriment. Chlorine compounds cause acidic corrosion, Teflon needs over 800 degrees F to stick to anything and can clog your screens, zinc doesn't play nice with silver on the galvanic scale. That covers most of the additives out there. And for the life of me, and being intimately familiar with how internal combustion engines work, I can't figure out how they claim to stop blow-by and achieve better combustion. There ain't no magic bullet.

Remember Andy Granatelli and STP automotive additive?

Seriously, is there anybody on this site with actual experience with zMAX?

Phil Mulligan

With the absence of any further information about the new D&S diesels announced last year for delivery 5-6 months ago, I assume the plan has been cancelled. I believe the problem is not so much the potential of a locomotive to ignite a wildfire due to the locomotive fuel or engine type, but rather, the flammability of the grass and trees. When that flammability is at its peak, the train operation has to be guaranteed incapable of providing ignition. This has to also include the effects of brakes shoe and wheel friction.

Considering the liability of starting a wildfire in a national forest, any amount of risk of accidental ignition is too high. It would probably be more cost effective just to cease operation during periods of extreme fire risk.

Part of what is driving this quest for lower locomotive wildfire ignition potential is the premise that the periods of extreme fire risk are suddenly increasing in frequency and duration. If true, this is leading to a threshold where the risk is too high and too often to allow any operation of recreational trains in national forests. I believe that Mr. Harper has publically acknowledged the theory of this trend toward accelerating wildfire potential over time.

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The new diesels may not have been cancelled. I am just assuming they have been. I don’t base that so much on the fact that they are late, but more on the fact that they D&S has not said anything to update the enthusiastic announcement they made last year. But maybe they will show up eventually.

If the prediction of long range change toward a drier Colorado climate and rising flammability comes true, then yes, to be consistent, all forms of outdoor ignition would have to be regulated. I am not convinced that it will become drier or that regulators will be consistent. It seems like the best course of action for D&S would be to do everything possible to erase the public perception that their steam trains routinely start fires along the right or way. That would include stepped up patrol, vegetation removal along steep grades, top notch spark arrestors, and a train fire prevention information publication.

I can say for a fact that the new D&S diesels are NOT on hold. Much like 493 they are just taking longer than expected. Not easy converting a standard gauge diesel to narrow gauge. The D&S will have a public update soon.

I have seen photos of them. They started with ex conrail gp40s that were sold to a Florida commuter line. They had been rebuilt by M&k with EMD wide cabs and full car bodies.

The D&S version will retain the wide cab ,but will have a narrow hood. Sort of like a narrow gauge gp60m.