Pullman Green and Other Railroad Colors

Barbara J. Klobucar 2000 Thesis
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The DuPont colors are 2.5 Gallon Formulas
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Pullman Standard Body Brown

DuPont Centari YS260

758S Centari Drier 4.4

763A Orange 13.8

764A Yellow 35.2

705A Black 89.9
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Pullman Standard Body Brewster Green "Pullman Green"

DuPont Centari YS560

758S Centari Drier 4.4

763A Orange 6.4

764A Yellow 25.8

705A Black 89.4
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DuPont Centari YS560 crossess to PPG Spectramaster Yellow-505709. PPG calls it Yellow but it has the same mix of colors that the DuPont Brewster Green "Pullman Green" has. There is no GREEN in Pullman Green
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American Car and Foundry "Pullman Green"

DuPont Centari YS448

758S Centari Drier 4.4

763A Orange 8.0

764A Yellow 25.6

705A Black 89.5
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American Car and Foundry "Pullman Green"

DuPont Centari YS552

758S Centari Drier 4.4

763A Orange 7.0

764A Yellow 26.0

705A Black 89.4
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Pressed Steel "Pullman Green"

DuPont Centari YS452

758S Centari Drier 4.4

763A Orange 7.8

764A Yellow 37.0

705A Black 89.9
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Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Olive Green

DuPont Centari YS545

758S Centari Drier 4.5

763A Orange 5.4

705A Black 31.5

764A Yellow 90.9
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Baltimore and Ohio Railroad "Pullman Green"

Sherwin-Williams USS 52105- E

“1 Gallon Formula”

U7380 1566.1

U7118 2759.1

U7303 3162.4

U7140 3481.8

U7110 3607.7

U7107 3682.8

U7106 3688.5
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Chesapeake and Ohio "Pullman Green"

DuPont Centari DS111

758S Centari Drier 4.5

717A Red Oxide 6.5

700A White 8.7

732A Fer Yellow 25.2

705A Black 90.5
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Delaware, Lackawanna and Western DL&W Standard Body

Sherwin-Williams USS 52103-E

“1 Gallon Formula”

U7379 1092.5

U7118 2146.0

U7140 2930.8

U7107 3431.2

U7302 3631.7

U7110 3771.3
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Seaboard "Pullman Green"

DuPont Dulux 4558D

5450S Drier 3.8

16D Orange 13.9

40D Yellow 38.4

2D Black 94.4
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Rutland "Pullman Green" DuPont

Centari YS451

758S Centari Drier 4.5

742A Blue Green 4.9

763A Orange 7.9

764A Yellow 48.2

705A Black 90.3
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Santa Fe Olive Green

DuPont Centari YS368

758S Drier 4.5

763A Orange 9.2

700A White 15.9

705A Black (HS) 43.0

764A Yellow 91.5
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Pennsylvania Railroad Tuscan Red

DuPont Dulux 5505D

5450S Drier 3.7

34D Dark Red 4.6

42D Violet 7.2

1D White 10.5

2D Black 21.8

35D Maroon 52.7

38D Red Oxide 91.0
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Dulux Gold

DuPont Dulux 014D

5450S Drier 4.0

16D Orange 4.5

13D Black 6.0

41D Light Yellow 22.3

23D White 49.1

5D Fer Yellow 99.1
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Central Railroad of New Jersey Imitation Gold

Sherwin-Williams USS 52104-E

“1 Gallon Formula”

U7131 1630.2

U7379 2722.7

U7110 3539.0

U7106 3634.5

U7302 3835.0

U7118 3967.6
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I've read separately that 'Pullman Green' is the same as US Military 'Olive Drab' - and that Wartime olive drab was essentially 85:15 black:yellow!

CD

Can someone fill me in briefly on what the decimals in these formulae denote? I'd have expected percentages (which could be converted to ounces or grams or whatever) but these are clearly not that.

I will see if I can find out.

Tim

We're starting to get some good info here....

Black & yellow is going to get you the dark greenish hue and the orange will warm it a tad. I note that these are mostly DuPont Centari acrylic enamel formulations so these are likely from the later years of Pullman ownership.

Pullman had "standard" deviations based on what road the cars went to i.e. SP & UP were different from SF which was different form other eastern roads. I've read in various places that there were something like seven different standard shades and most of those colors evolved over time. So, there really is no one "Pullman Green". And of note, Pullman's standard body color prior to 1902 was a rich, dark brown.

Tim - Can you cop a copy of that paper?

CD - Pullman Green is much darker than military olive drab, especially when fresh.

If I were to guess, I'd say that the black and orange pigments may have weathered out faster than yellow, hence the cars turning a lighter green as they aged. I know that the reds could oxidized quicker than other colors depending on what was used as pigment.

It is not Pullman Green, it is Pullman Color. There is no green in Pullman color, it is dark yellow. In John White’s book on American passenger cars he describes how passenger cars were painted yellow when locomotives burned wood and the ash was light colored. When the railroads started to burn coal, the soot made a mess out of the yellow cars, so the yellow was darkened with carbon black. The yellow pigment was probably one of the forms of iron oxide, which was durable and cheep. To protect the paint and give it a gloss, the cars were varnished. The varnish was not clear, maybe somewhere between orange and brown. The dark yellow paint with the varnish coat produced a color or appearance which became known as Pullman color.

Pullman Company changed the color of Pullman color several times over the years. In the later years of the Pullman company the color they used was Dulux 4558, unless the leasing railroad requested a different color. After the synthetic enamels were introduced in the early 1930s, the varnish was discontinued and the paint was formulated to try to match the perceived color and varnish finish. There are lots of Pullman documents in various archives and the story of Pullman color can be followed with some effort and lots of time.

David - I forgot about the varnish used early on. When did Pullman switch over to Dulux? That would have negated the use of varnish. Dulux was available in the mid 20s.

I have PDFs of Barbara's thesis and the color cards she made up for it. The Thesis is 161 pages long and contains interior colors as well.
The second PDF has scans of 23 Paint test panels that she made.

There is a lot of information.

Tim

Found the paper: https://mdsoar.org/handle/11603/2711

Yes, That is it.

TIm

I have Pullman green and Pullman brown successfully mixed by Sherwin Williams from excellent original samples.
Also UP caboose red and yellow and interior caboose dark green and light green and floor maroon.
Contact me if you would like details of them.


Mike Pannell
Vintage Rail Restoration
Cheyenne
307 221 2371

Wouldn't it be better to quote the references and let a supplier make up the physical mix to match it?


From table 1, starting p.98 in the MDSOAR PDF:

Pullman "chocolate brown" pre-1900:
Munsell 1.99Y, 1.44/2.47
L* 15.02, a* 3.06, b* 16.56

Pullman Green ("Pullman Standard") circa 1900:
Munsell 1.82GY, 1.11/1.41
L* 11.73, a* -3.07, b* 7.17

ACF "Pullman Standard" circa 1914:
Munsell 6.43Y 1.04/1.28
L* 11.03, a* -.40, b* 8.94

ACF "Pullman Standard" circa 1923:
Munsell .95GY, 1.18/1.33
L* 12.47, a* -2.71, b* 7.28

Pressed Steel "Pullman Green" circa 1923:
Munsell 9.99Y 1.42/2.28
L* 14.81, a* -3.72, b* 13.74


Table 2, p.99 of the PDF

CNJ "Pullman Green" circa 1926
Munsell 5GY 2.0/1.0
L* 20.54, a* -2.87, b* 4.07

DL&W "Standard Body" or "Olive Green" circa 1935
Munsell 10Y 2.0/2.0
L* 20.54, a* -3.07, b* 10.73

B&O "Olive Green" circa 1923:
Munsell 1GY 3.0/4.0
L* 30.77 a* -6.44, b* 26.57

B&O "Olive Green" 1926-1935:
Munsell 6.94Y 2.09/2.46
L* 21.48, a* -1.65, b* 15.13

Seaboard (GM) "Pullman Green" circa 1937:
Munsell 5.26Y 1.70/2.75
L* 17.56, a* -.02, b* 18.56

C&O "Dark Green" circa 1923:
Munsell 7.68Y 2.02/1.58
L* 20.78, a* -1.46, b* 9.07

Santa Fe "Olive" circa 1903:
Munsell 5.60Y 3.77/5.01
L* 38.83, a* -1.28, b* 34.95

Rutland "Dark Olive Green" circa 1914:
Munsell 9.57Y 2.05/3.13
L* 21.05, a* -4.35, b* 19.60

B&M "Dark Olive Green" circa 1893:
Munsell 9.99Y 1.42/2.28
L* 14.81, a* -3.72, b* 13.74

PRR "Tuscan Red" circa 1913:
Munsell 7.92R 2.55/4.10
L* 26.13, a* 19.04, b* 10.67 ***AT LAST!!!

PRR, L&N, Pullman "Dulux Gold" (lettering) - 1930s to 1990s:
Munsell .89Y 6.17/8.60
L* 63.36, a* 8.84, b* 56.22

CNJ "Imitation Gold" (for lettering) 1920s to 1940s:
Munsell 2.5Y 8.0/10.0
L* 81.35, a* 4.19, b* 67.78

DL&W "Imitation Gold" 1920s to 1940s:
Munsell 1.25Y 8.0/16.0
L* 81.35, a* 11.85, b* 106.21


Provenance is listed in the table if you need to know it for some reason.

The "1999 paint formulae" for the colors in the thesis tables are contained in Appendix IV (p.108 of the PDF thesis) and the column containing the mystery decimals is headed as follows:

MIX
SIZE:
SPECIAL
(2.50 OF
GALLON)

This is surely meaningful to someone who knows paint tinting -- but that person is not me.


MIKE PANNELL -- do you have CIE or Munsell colorimetry values for your swatches? If not, you might have them made up under 'standard' light, and perhaps get versions for common lighting conditions in case there is a difference by reflected and absorbed spectra for particular pigments. Those would then be a hard reference for the colors as mixed.

RME - I'll take a guess at the mix numbers.... The Centari and Turbo Ultra numbers likely relate to settings on the old mixing racks for automatic tinting. Both product lines are no longer in production so the numbers are probably meaningless nowadays.

Munsell and LaB numbers are of more use depending on whether or not the manufacturer's coatings lab can use them. I haven't inquired yet but I'd guess if you walked into an automotive paint retail store, they'll look at those numbers and say "Huh?" since they can't look it up on the computer.

Note: PPG/Ditzler numbers are still usable but the color won't be exact, possibly just somewhere in the ballpark, with current pigments.

Moral of the story: If you don't have a current product line paint number/formula, have a sample sent to the coatings lab for matching.

Mike - Any data you have such as manufacturer, product line, paint color code, date mixed, what it's used for and how you determined the colors would be added to my list for all to reference. Please post here or PM/email me. I'll take any color info that's railroad related, even if it's obsolete.

[edit] Note to all: When you have paint mixed, please, please, please spray some sample cards and store them properly for future reference. Paint suppliers have special cards specifically for that purpose.

"Munsell and LaB numbers are of more use depending on whether or not the manufacturer's coatings lab can use them. I haven't inquired yet but I'd guess if you walked into an automotive paint retail store, they'll look at those numbers and say "Huh?" since they can't look it up on the computer."

When I got 'our' regional hardware store into custom paint in the early 1990s, the computerized spectrophotometer setup was programmed to convert the meter reading directly into ServiStar-compatible tinting instructions in its software. It was equally easy to enter CIE values to have the translation done, and I seem to remember you could work with Pantone colors as well. (I don't use Munsell - not that there's anything wrong with it - so I can't say whether the software would recognize it.) We had a fairly wide set of light sources so we could scan swatches or sample cards 'in the environment the paint would be applied'.

As I recall, the system supplier was savvy enough to code the tinting instructions to match the color 'as dried,' not as it appeared in the can. I wish now I could remember what the setup was, as it appears no current paint-store systems are anywhere near as competent as the one I put in. It ran quite happily on a dedicated PC, so would function today in any sort of earlier Windows emulator or VM; I'm astounded that I haven't seen equivalent hardware and software developed and marketed for Linux. (I suspect a good directed bazaar-software development effort could re-create all its functionality and a great deal more in no more than a few weeks...)