SBRHS/3751 Acquires Three Santa Fe Passenger Cars

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:09 pm

Reposted from the Santa Fe 3751 Facebook page:

Quote:

While the Union Pacific “Big Boy” heads for home after operating throughout Southern California, we’ve got some BIG news of our own.

The SBRHS is pleased to announce the acquisition of three, ex-Santa Fe Railway railcars that will serve in support of future 3751 operations!

Earlier this year, our society was made aware of an upcoming Amtrak equipment auction. Buried in the lists of equipment that would be available, we discovered many ex-Santa Fe Railway cars in exceptional condition. Interested in the potential benefits these cars might have in supporting 3751 on the road and their recent operating history, compared to the scope of work needed to return the previously selected railcar, an ex-Seaboard Air Line Railway baggage- dormitory-coach numbered 1517, to service - the SBRHS Board of Directors convened to discuss the matter.

Following an extensive amount of research by the steam crew and third-party railcar inspectors, it was decided in the best interest of the society to attempt to acquire two, ex-Santa Fe Railway dormitory cars and one baggage car.

Additional support for this decision came following an updated projection on the 1517’s restoration, revealing it would cost upwards of $150,000 to return the car to active, mainline service. This massive expenditure, compiled with the car’s east coast heritage not aligned with the mission of the SBRHS, led to the society’s decision to move forward with attempting to acquire the trio of cars. As the summer of 2019 began, the SBRHS was informed it was successful in the acquisition of these cars.

At this time, all three cars are currently be readied to depart an Amtrak maintenance facility located in Beech Grove, Indiana. We expect the positioning movement of these cars to begin in November, traveling via CSX and BNSF freight trains, and will provided updates on their location when possible for anyone who might like to see them as they travel west to Southern California.

Once here, with 3751’s current boiler inspection nearing completion, work to fully restore and specially outfit these cars for future excursions will begin in earnest. Check out the full story on these car’s history and the SBRHS journey to acquiring them here: https://www.sbrhs.org/breaking-news-3751-support-cars/

Thank you to all our dedicated supporters who made this possible.

Cars in question:
ATSF 1636 “Pine Lodge” & ATSF 1639 “Pine Peak,” the two dormitory cars featured in this acquisition, were built by the Budd Company in 1950 in a group of 27 cars of the 10 Roomette, 6 Double Bedroom floor plan, the largest single group of lightweight sleepers on the Santa Fe. These 10-6 sleepers & a group of ACF built 10-6 sleepers were the preferred sleeping cars in Santa Fe’s transcontinental sleeping car line as their simple floor plan was conducive to the through sleeping car service provided in conjunction with connecting eastern railroads in Chicago. All of Santa Fe’s 10-6 sleeping cars spent their entire lives in near constant rotation protecting sleeping car lines on every major Santa Fe passenger train. By the mid 60’s, all of the “Pine” series cars were re-equipped with 41-CDO-11 trucks.

Most of the 10-6 sleeping cars made it to Amtrak service. “Pine Lodge” was renumbered AMTK 2725 & “Pine Peak” to AMTK 2728. Both cars protected sleeping cars lines out of LA for Amtrak in the 1970’s with occasional usage on the San Francisco Zephyr, Empire Builder, & on east coast bound services. Both cars were converted from steam heat to head end power (HEP) early in 1978, extending their lives into the modern era. “Pine Lodge” became AMTK 2994 & “Pine Peak” became AMTK 2992 after the conversion to HEP.

ATSF baggage car 3656 was built by Budd in 1953 in a series of orders for lightweight baggage cars from ACF, Budd, & Pullman. This car spent its entire career in baggage & storage mail service for Santa Fe & likely saw use on every train in the Santa Fe system. Like many Budd built cars (Santa Fe cars especially), 3656 went to Amtrak as AMTK 1106 & went to work system wide. It is just as likely that this car saw service on every Amtrak service that offered checked baggage. In 1980, 3656 made the cut for conversion to HEP & was renumbered to AMTK 1161, its final Amtrak number. 3656 continued in service system wide until 2015 when replaced by a large order of brand new Viewliner II baggage cars.

David Dewey · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:30 pm

This sounds like great news. Looking at the photos, did any of the skirting survive? If not, do you have plans to apply skirting? I know it is easier to maintain the "under floor" stuff without it, but without it, it looks so. . . .industrial!

David Dewey · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:36 pm

PS, I noticed in the third pic, one car is coupled to a Dinning Car--hmm, don't your crews need to eat?? :)

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2876

"The SBRHS is pleased to announce that we were successful in acquiring the three mentioned cars at a cost of $4,000. With the successful acquisition of these cars, efforts to refurbish them to support 3751 operations will begin immediately after the locomotive’s boiler inspection."

Incredible. Either the $4k cost doesn't include shipping or they also caught a real break with CSX and BNSF.

ATSFRyan · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:34 pm

PMC wrote:

"The SBRHS is pleased to announce that we were successful in acquiring the three mentioned cars at a cost of $4,000. With the successful acquisition of these cars, efforts to refurbish them to support 3751 operations will begin immediately after the locomotive’s boiler inspection."

Incredible. Either the $4k cost doesn't include shipping or they also caught a real break with CSX and BNSF.

My guess is that they will deadhead behind Amtrak the entire way to Los Angeles. But I have no insider information.

Topfuel · **Joined:** Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm **Posts:** 529

The cars on these Amtrak sales are all sold "As-is, Where-is", in this case FOB Beech Grove Indiana. All prep and movement costs are the responsibility of the new car owners.

This standard policy has bitten some of these museum groups as it appears that many have assumed their new prize would just show up at their front gate one day with a big red ribbon around it. There's a lot of work and expense involved to prep these cars for freight moves to their new homes. Most cars will not move in Amtrak service to their new owners as they are way past their due dates for heavy overhaul, and Amtrak discontinued shop moves years ago.

Topfuel · **Joined:** Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm **Posts:** 529

"......Looking at the photos, did any of the skirting survive? If not, do you have plans to apply skirting? I know it is easier to maintain the "under floor" stuff without it, but without it, it looks so. . . .industrial"

Assuming you're referring to the sleepers. These cars were delivered without full skirts. So the current 1/4 round "skirts" covering the side sills reflect the as-built appearance.

Santa Fe had an on-again off-again affair with skirts, and orders throughout the post-war era reflect this. Indeed, as this mindset changed, some cars delivered without skirts (such as the Pines) had skirts painstakingly added at Topeka shops when cars came in for heavy overhaul. Thus, there were a few fully-skirted Pines that made it to Amtrak, but all these full skirts were removed when the cars were converted for the Heritage Fleet program circa 1979 to 1981.

Rader Sidetrack · **Joined:** Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:43 am **Posts:** 54

Regarding the movement of these cars to California, the PR release quoted in the original post says ...

Quote:

At this time, all three cars are currently be readied to depart an Amtrak maintenance facility located in Beech Grove, Indiana. We expect the positioning movement of these cars to begin in November, traveling via CSX and BNSF freight trains, and will provided updates on their location when possible for anyone who might like to see them as they travel west to Southern California.

Curiously, the PR release currently posted on the SBRHS site seems to omit the paragraph quoted above.
https://www.sbrhs.org/breaking-news-3751-support-cars/

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2876

Topfuel wrote:

The cars on these Amtrak sales are all sold "As-is, Where-is", in this case FOB Beech Grove Indiana. All prep and movement costs are the responsibility of the new car owners.

This standard policy has bitten some of these museum groups as it appears that many have assumed their new prize would just show up at their front gate one day with a big red ribbon around it. There's a lot of work and expense involved to prep these cars for freight moves to their new homes. Most cars will not move in Amtrak service to their new owners as they are way past their due dates for heavy overhaul, and Amtrak discontinued shop moves years ago.

The two sleepers have been sitting since 2007, the baggage car since 2012, I doubt they were vandalized at Beech Grove but they will still need COTS and so forth.

RTL-III · **Joined:** Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:36 pm **Posts:** 27

https://www.sbrhs.org/equipment/support-railcars.html

Looks like these cars will soon be on their way to SBRHS! They look to be in pretty good condition aside from some graffiti. Interesting to note, the 2523's Phase IV stripe looks a lot worse for wear than the Phase IVb on the other cars as IV was often a quickly-applied decal over Phase III, where IVb was more thoroughly applied and the underlying stripe was removed properly.

Anyone know if the Pine sleepers will rebuilt as full 10-6s, or are there other plans for what to do with the former bedroom area? These cars were rebuilt as "dorm-lounges" in 1997-98, with the 10 roomettes becoming crew dorm space and the 6 bedrooms being removed for a smoking lounge, as smoking had recently been banned on most Amtrak trains. Only one of these cars (AMTK 2500 "Pine Brook") ever got the lounge installed, though, so the other 25 or so rolled around for a decade with half the car completely empty. It wasn't even useable as baggage space since the vestibule was on the other end.

Some more info/photos:

http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakonline/he ... hotos.html

David Dewey · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:06 pm

I wonder if they plan on restoring the skirts? I know they got in the way of the maintenance folks, but the cars look "naked" without them, at least IMHO. I would suppose their restoration/recreation might be a bit spendy.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:20 pm

David Dewey wrote:

I wonder if they plan on restoring the skirts? I know they got in the way of the maintenance folks, but the cars look "naked" without them, at least IMHO.

Quoting "Topfuel" just a few posts above this one:

Quote:

Assuming you're referring to the sleepers. These cars were delivered without full skirts. So the current 1/4 round "skirts" covering the side sills reflect the as-built appearance.

Santa Fe had an on-again off-again affair with skirts, and orders throughout the post-war era reflect this. Indeed, as this mindset changed, some cars delivered without skirts (such as the Pines) had skirts painstakingly added at Topeka shops when cars came in for heavy overhaul. Thus, there were a few fully-skirted Pines that made it to Amtrak, but all these full skirts were removed when the cars were converted for the Heritage Fleet program circa 1979 to 1981.

So putting skirting on would NOT be "restoration," but alteration.

David Dewey · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:44 pm

Ah, I missed that. Very good point. There are many other things on these cars that will use up any funds available!