Sad news - follow the link.

http://www.postgazette.com/breaking/20030721webkinzua3.asp

> Sad news - follow the link.

Yes, this is sad news.

I was up to the Knox & Kane RR to visit with Sloan Cornell just this last Saturday. He has been running diesel only since the bridge was taken out of service. Sloan was planning to start boiler work on the steam engines to bring them into compliance with hopes of seeing the bridge reopened next spring. He was also in the process of moving his base of operations from Marienville to Kane, since passenger loadings out of Marienville have been very light.

With the collapse of the bridge, both the state and Sloan will have to assess their options.

Alan Maples


AMaples@aol.com

I think we'd all be interested in seeing photos of the damage. If only the wind was able to do this, it appears the engineers were none too cautious in closing the bridge. Imagine the press that would be generated had a steam locomotive crashed into the gorge.

ryarger@rypn.org

Click the link for the photos:

> I think we'd all be interested in seeing
> photos of the damage. If only the wind was
> able to do this, it appears the engineers
> were none too cautious in closing the
> bridge. Imagine the press that would be
> generated had a steam locomotive crashed
> into the gorge.


http://www.bradfordera.com/bradfordera.html

First photo from the previous link....


lumpy72@msn.com

Second photo from the previous link....



lumpy72@msn.com

Third photo from the previous link....



lumpy72@msn.com

In the broad tapestry of railroad and engineering history, this is an incalculable loss.

Standing on it, riding over it, or hiking under it -- the bridge was an experience unlike any other. This former Erie RR structure stood 301 feet high and measured 2,053 feet long.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.

cupper@att.net

Yes, it is an incalculable loss. I've ridden over the bridge, and was hoping to take my fiancee up to see it someday.

However, is anyone going to dare to suggest that it be rebuilt?

Having a side interest in covered bridges, I run into this dilemma all the time when covered bridges are lost due to arson, flooding, or the like. The problem is, in most cases when a covered bridge is lost a replacement is necessary--whether it be by one family for the one family the bridge serves, or for a major road artery (or even just a noted historic landmark). Thus, it's easy to ask that the funds that would be earmarked for a concrete or steel bridge be reallocated to a wooden replacement instead--and it has happened many times in the past 40 years.

In the case of Kinzua, although its preservation up to this time has been fortunate, I cannot see any serious justification for rebuilding this span. It's not a serious link in any traffic corridor; it was merely a destination for state park visitors and the Knox, Kane & Kinzua (which, without the bridge as a draw, may be in serious trouble now); and reconstruction would no doubt suck up tens of millions of government dollars that, even if "created" out of nowhere, would be better spent on almost anything else.

If Bill Gates or the Waltons want to write a check for the cause, don't let me stop them, but.........

lner4472@bcpl.net

I was fortunate enough to have walked across the bridge in 1969. Peering over the railing, my dad's WW2 Ray Ban aviator glasses which had been in my shirt pocket, slipped out and went sailing into the treetops below. Perhaps someone clearing the debris will find them.

There is another remarkable ex-Erie bridge over the gorge of the Genesee River at Portageville, NY, but not as high or as long as the Kinzua structure.

tr2manz@frontiernet.net

> There is another remarkable ex-Erie bridge
> over the gorge of the Genesee River at
> Portageville, NY, but not as high or as long
> as the Kinzua structure.

And hopefully in better condition since NS and CP trains use it every day!

The Erie also had two other notable "bridges":

Moodna Viaduct in New York State on the Graham Line (you can ride a NJ Transit train over it 7 days a week)

Starrucca Viaduct near Susquehanna, PA (the D&H Penn Division is gone from underneath, but between NS and NYS&W a train crosses over it every day)


Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society

Wasn't the Knox & Kane running over that bridge up until a couple of years ago?

jdconrad@snet.net

This is very disturbing news. However, without the benefit of the detailed analysis of the failure, it would very premature to make statements about the reasons behind the prior closing of the bridge or the structural integrity of the bridge before that closing. A few questions should be asked first:

1. The bridge was under repair at the time of collapse. Were these repairs a reason why the bridge collapsed in the first place?

2. During the repair proceedure, critical structural members were removed for repair/replacement. The bridge was supported by temporary bracing/shoaring/structural members. Were these temporary measures adequate to support the full force of the wind load? Did the bridge engineers in charge of the repairs design for these loads?

3. It is obvious that the bridge was subjected to winds of 80 MPH at some point in it's 100 plus year history and had been designed for such loads. Yet, why, while the bridge was under repair, did it collapse without any additional weight other than it's own structural steel members? Yes, the wind loads were tremendous but the design of the bridge had those wind loads factored in.

4. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania was spending a tremendous amount of taxpayer money to refurbish the bridge. Was the original bridge inspection inaccurate as to the depth of deterioration and the repairs measures inadequate for a wind load such as what occurred yesterday?

So, before many make statements like "Boy, those bridge engineers were right to close the bridge" or "Imagine if the train had been still allowed to run", we should really examine all the facts. And, based on the limited information so far, it is way too early, IMHO, to pronounce the bridge as having been in danger of collapse. And lets hope a detailed investigation is done to determine exactly why the bridge blew over. Luckily, no one was killed.

rpsurv@nni.com

Took a trip to the bridge for the first time today.

I've been wanting to get up there for years, and now, it's nearly gone.

The road into the park was blocked off. I hiked through the woods and was able to see the bridge. It was heart breaking to see the destruction in person.

I wonder if shoring up the remaining portions is an option, or does it need the whole bridge structure for support?

I noticed the bridge is simmilar in contruction to the Salisburty Viaduct near Meyersdale, PA.

altoona_east@railfanusa.com

. . . . . . . . . reconstruction
> would no doubt suck up tens of millions of
> government dollars that, even if
> "created" out of nowhere, would be
> better spent on almost anything else.

Perhaps this bridge should be stabilized and maintained as a monument, like the Johnstown Flood reservoir dam abutments, and stay about the way it is, rather than be rebuilt (notwithstanding a jackpot lawsuit on behalf of fish migration in Kinzua Creek).

Obviously, building a wye for the Knox & Kane at the south end of the bridge would be cheaper than rebuilding the bridge. Maybe visitors eventually would be allowed to walk out to the end of the remaining bridge, on days when it isn't too windy...


bruceman@stargate.net