I was not downing the BR&W in any way. I'll always have a fond spot in my heart for them as I was a co-founder way back in the early 60's and # 60 was my first standard gauge girlfriend.

As has been pointed out the HUGE difference between the 2 outfits is the NH RR is a professionally run operation with all personnel paid vs the BR&W which is all volunteer.
Those two very different operating models explain the bulk of the difference. From my observation the BR&W has made great progress in the recent past and for a volunteer organization I think they can be quite proud.

As to some late day trains last Sunday being lean that's certainly possible. I can report that for the season in total we will almost suredly set a new all time high this year. And again what counts at the end of the day is dollars grossed and net dollars earned. From my observation around the industry no other Santa season operation generates the revenue numbers generated at NH. Most don't come remotely close.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

It would be a honor to ride with you Ross. Haven't been to Pennsylvania in over 25 years. Probably overdue for a visit. What days are you a hogger?

A point of clarification here: The Black River Railroad Historical Trust (BRRHT) is the not-for-profit arm of the railroad that runs/manages the passenger trips along the line, whereas the Black River & Western Railroad owns most of the equipment (#60 included), the rail line itself, and the freight business. The BRRHT and BR&W work closely together to run these trips, but they're not one entity.

So if the demand is there, extra trips can be added - but it's not as simple as running a bunch of weekdays due to the volunteer corps that runs the BRRHT.

I can't agree with the ''close to dinner time, cranky kids'' theory, either. I was in the shop last Friday at the museum, and heard the pax count over the radio. Our 5:00 PM train was almost sold out; four coaches, one first class car and a crew car. The 7:15 train had only about ten less passengers. I'm sure the excitement of seeing Santa would help make kids forget that it is dinner time

Looking online at our ticketing and reservation system, our late afternoon/evening trains appear to be just about sold out, with only one or two odd seats remaining. There are lots of seats available on some of the noontime trains, though. So that "dinner time" theory seems to be suspect, at best.

From a business standpoint, agreed that the two different models, for profit v. non profit, would have far different fare and cost numbers. At just about this time last year, I heard an astounding revenue number attributed to one of the other tourist lines. But then someone pointed out that as large as that number was, it had to cover wages and benefits, which will reate to some higher ticket prices. The 501 c 3 that I'm a member of tries to keep our prices "family budget friendly", and it seems to work well for us.

EDM

I live in the area and I am familiar with both the BR&W and the NH&I. Both of the lines do a great job in running and promoting their Christmas trains. I have written the Christmas trains on both lines as we took our children on both of them when they were young.

The BR&W does run with all volunteer crews and they have been making improvements to their Christmas trains every year. They have added first class to their offering this year and it has worked out quite well. They have set their coach pricing for adults this year at $32.00 and $34.00 for children. We took my 2-1/2 year old grandson again this year and we rode the 9:30AM train on 11-18-19 which is diesel powered to Ringoes and steam on the way back. He had a great time and our cost for four adults was $128.00 plus a processing fee, children under 3 are free and parking is free in Flemington. The BR&W hopes that all of their Christmas trains are sold out and that has been working out. The volunteers to a great job and I am sure they are tired by the last trip on Sunday evening.

My friends ask me which train to take and I tell them that both are fine, but if you are on a tight budget, consider the BR&W first. I have relatives riding the NH&I on December 20th as they have ridden before, really enjoy it, and do not care about the cost. When my son worked at the NH&I, they had a lot of riders who came down from New York city and the cost was not an issue. As long as both roads, continue to provide steam, there is nothing better at Christmas time, but of course I am a big steam fan.

If you are in the area, be sure to get out and see both trains. As always, you cannot take these things for granted, so do it today and enjoy it! I had some great times years ago riding in the cab when my son was firing or running. Ross is a great host and he dresses the part of a true steam engineer. You will not see him hanging out of the cab with no hat on!!

Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for a good year in 2020!!

" From my observation around the industry no other Santa season operation generates the revenue numbers generated at NH. Most don't come remotely close."

I can't imagine that's true. I'm betting Strasburg has NH beat just in your own state. Durango, Colorado RR Museum, Grand Canyon, and others are for sure making higher numbers. Not that it's a contest but you can't just say things based on your own observations.

To Tom F I'm steam hogger all day 12/17, 12/18, 12/19, 12/20 & 12/23. Please see www.newhoperailroad.com for schedules and cab ride reservations.

To Ron Muldowney thanks for the compliment and I agree both operations are worth patronizing. Remember the Santa trains are mostly for the kids 3-9 years old and not primarily for us adults but a steam train is still a steam train.

To cresent zephyr, I stand by my statement that there are few if any Santa train operations that produce more gross revenues than does the NH&I, including the several you site. There's no way to prove or disprove this as most don't publish their riderships or revenue figures but from careful observation I believe I'm on solid ground. Certainly between the NH&I and BR&W there's no comparison as NH carries many times the number of passengers at significantly higher prices per person.

Best wishes to all for a wonderful Christmas and a healthy, rewarding 2020.

Ross Rowland

Just to define the huge differential between the BR&W and New Hope operations here are some numbers which should clearly define the point.

Starting with Black Friday ( Nov.29 ) and through Christmas Eve ( 12/24) the BR&W is offering a total of 27 trains ( weekends only) while New Hope is offering a total of 289 trains ( 189 weekends, 100 weekdays) . New Hope's coach fares are roughly 75% higher than BR&W's and New Hope's First Class fares are a little lower.

Both operations run trains of approx. equal capacity.

You can clearly see its not apples/oranges more like apples/watermelons.

Merry Christmas, Ross Rowland

Wanted to wish all a blessed Christmas and a healthy, rewarding 2020.

Grateful to report that our new 3 train ( 2 diesel, 1 steam) operation at New Hope went exceedingly well and enabled us to set new all time records in people hauled from Thanksgiving to Christmas Eve.

Baldwin 2-8-0 # 40 ran perfectly and delighted thousands of youngsters and oldsters alike.

I very much enjoyed having 6 fellow RYPNers as cab riders and it's always interesting to connect a face with a screen name.

Thanks, Ross Rowland