Anyone Want an MBTA Green Line trolley/streetcar?

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:01 am

https://patch.com/massachusetts/newton/ ... our-chance

Quote:

There are seven light rail cars up for auction. According to the Auction International website they are vintage trolleys made between 1978 and 1990 and retired from Boston's MBTA fleet.

The listing notes that trolleys from Boeing, and Kinkisharyo, as well as a shop-made flat car are included in the sale, which had one bid of $500 as of Friday morning. The site is accepting bids until January 28.

But, buyer beware:

"Salvageable parts have been removed, and are NOT operational. These vehicles are for scrap and are inoperable, these units have sat for at least three years," according to the auctioneer site.

The old cars go up for auction as the MBTA opens up bids for transit vehicle manufacturers to submit proposals for a new fleet - we're talking 165 cars - for the Green Line. This signals a step toward bulking up for the Green Line extension project. The longer cars will serve all four branches of the Green Line and is part of the MBTA's multi-faceted program to transform the Green Line.

Tom Nelligan · **Posted:** Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:02 am

The Boeing LRVs included in this group were converted to work cars 25 or so years ago and thus have non-original interiors as shown in the photos on the Auctions International site, as well as the mentioned missing parts. But externally they might be OK for static display. All have been stored outdoors in the back of the Riverside yard for several years.

RCD · **Posted:** Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:41 pm

Only nice thing I see is the flat car. The MBTA will eventually get rid of the working rolling stock as they upgrade that would be far better to preserve then the parts Source parked in back.

robertmacdowell · **Posted:** Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:33 pm

Wow. Boeings. Remember what I said in another thread about EV technology moving rapidly? This right here.

These cars are already so hacked you don't need to care about keeping anything original. You bypass all the 1970s controls (that you'll never be able to maintain anyway) and slap a couple of COTS Zilla controllers on the motors directly. Want to self-propel / limp-home? Tesla packs. You can tell the Zilla controller to limit propulsion current so you don't blow out the battery, not that that'll ever happen (the motors can't pull enough to injure a modern EV battery).

And just to be clear, I don't *generally* recommend gutting historic streetcar electrical cabinets. But Boeings hold a special place in my heart, having spent countless hours in the Twin Peaks Tunnel thinking "Boeing. Thank God they don't build airplanes."

Larry Lovejoy · **Posted:** Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:32 pm

“Boeing. Thank God they don’t build airplanes.”

Actually, it’s worse than that. The San Francisco and Boston SLRVs were designed and built by military helicopter specialists at Boeing-Vertol's plant near Philadelphia. The late Gary Pfeiffer, at that time one of the central figures in the Trolley Valhalla/Buckingham Valley/Penns Landing trolley museum group, after graduating from Drexel University with an engineering degree, was offered a position of the SLRV project at Boeing Vertol. After about a year of frustration dealing with a design team who had very little understanding of what it was they were building, Gary left Boeing-Vertol to go back to Penn Central where he had interned during his college years. While that might seem like a jump from the frying pan to the fire, Gary vastly preferred working for a bankrupt railroad versus of a clueless group of helicopter engineers who thought they could design a trolley car.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.

EJ Berry · **Posted:** Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:28 pm

To clarify, the Vertol part of Boeing built the CH-46 Sea Knight (USMC, USN) and CH-47 Chinook (US Army) tandem rotor helicopters and currently the MV-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft (USMC, USN).

At that time the Vietnam War was ending and business for Defense contractor aerospace firms had dried up, so Boeing got into transit, building the Standard US LRV's for SF Muni and MBTA.

They proved to be much better at helicopters than trolleys. Of course they flew the prototype tandem rotor helicopter in 1945, so by 1975 they had 30+ years experience with helicopters and none with LRV's. I don't think they spent much time with nearby SEPTA to see how what they were trying to build would actually be used. (I think trolley route 36's Eastwick Loop is 7 miles from the Vertol plant)

Later SEPTA's Kawasaki cars were assembled in the Vertol Plant with Kawasaki as prime contractor. They're still in service.

Phil Mulligan

Anyone Want an MBTA Green Line trolley/streetcar?

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