Sandy,

Didn't say they wouldn't, the point was just that the market will do it without any assistance.

GME

How many coal plants in the United States have converted from coal to natural gas over the last few years? Probably at least half of them? Maybe 80%? Many of the coal powered plants burned 110 rail cars of coal daily. I heard many people say that it was coal fired power plants that were the worst polluters.

So the majority of them converted and did it have the slightest effect on the weather? Did all those tens of thousands of wind mills have any effect on the weather? All the electric cars? All the new pollution standards such as tier 4 standards to locomotives. It didn't change anything. It seems to me burning coal has little to no effect on anything. This whole agenda with the climate is about power and money nothing else. If there was no money to be made nobody would care about it. That is why both China and India could care less and are doing nothing about it.

While we are discussing this, over 1.000 new coal plants worldwide are being built or planned. Especially China and India are indeed "doing something about it".

If this planet really was in an immediate state of "climate emergency" and if we really could change it, then we immediately would have to stop all flights, close all airports, stop oversea imports e.g. from china and implement measures towards CO²- polluting countries probably similar as to terrorist governments. And say good-bye to all sorts of cars, no matter if powered by gas or by child labour for the batteries.

Instead we are closing down our industrial infrastructure yet accept others to sell us products fabricated the way we aren't allowed to.

Exclaimer: Of course saving nature is a must, but weather forecasts over more than a few weeks are unsafe. The big player in the game is the sun anyway. If we called it the "sun-made climate change", that might probably be closer to the truth.


Rant aside, I think all the preservation "industry" in the U.S. is too small to have any influence on coal supply, let alone political decisions. All we can (and must) probably do is be prepared. Personally I believe that anticipatory obedience might be most contraproductive and may unnecessarily increase the pressure on the steam operated RRs. Stand your ground.

Mike

The danger here is that "too small to have any influence on coal supply and political decisions" translates directly into "too small to be able to stand up to that day when a bunch of elementary school students, led by college students and activist teachers, stage a protest at your steam railway, with every news media outlet that can spare a reporter or crew being alerted in advance, covering it, and offering sympathetic treatment to their propaganda".

Because that day is most assuredly coming.

It matters not to THEM whether one plant in China belches out more harmful emissions in two or three minutes than your steam locos do all 525,960 minutes of the year. YOUR choo-choos are seen as the ONLY thing around making visible fossil fuel smoke, thanks to power plants being replaced or scrubbers on stacks, diesel exhaust fluid, etc.

It's not rational. It's not reasoned. It's not "fair." But it WILL be coming.

Perhaps folks should investigate supporting the Coalition for Sustainable Rail's research into bio-coal:

https://csrail.org/torrefied-biomass

and

https://csrail.org/everett

I believe there is a group in Europe doing similar work.

I think working toward a positive outcome for your future fuel supply is a good idea.

Just like used cooking oil takes the wind out of the sails of the anti fossil fuel folks, so does using a wood based product to substitute for coal.

Brian

It took over a hundred years to reach the point the environment is in now. It is not going to be reversed in 6 months. And playing this game of "you first" doesn't help either.

It is not going to be reversed, and it doesn't need to. Climate has always been changing.

Places in the north of England bearing names that point to winegrowing just as in Italy are one of many proofs of the medieval climate optimum just a few centuries ago. After that, we had the "little ice age" until about 1850. Rests of trees have been found underneath Austrian glaciers, proving there have been warmer times before.

And by the way, what types of steam locomotives do you want to blame for the Roman climate optimum, when Hannibal passed the Alps with elephants?

The sun is burning 50.000 times more energy on this planet than mankind consumes. Believing we could change the world climate seems to be either sheer presumption or fear.

I wouldn't even buy a used car from that 17-year-old special student, let alone believing her divinations.

@ADM, yes you are right, this is not rational. Just when you think this society is now well educated and as sophisticated as in Roman times, there comes the sect of the end of the world...

I have heard, however, of some good lobbying for steam railways in the UK going cross-party. I doubt if establishing this on a more than state-wide-scale may work for the U.S. It will be an uphill struggle.


Mike

Rather than being reactive, perhaps the rail preservation industry should come up with a common education program that can be shared NOW with the public and ourselves. Be proactive through education regarding the minimal impact coal burning steam locomotives have on climate change. Perhaps offer other ways your organization is supporting the cause. Insights into the sourcing issue of cleaner coal, associated cost etc. The barn door has been opened and, as you noted, we are too small of a community to make any policy changes. Hiding and hoping no one will notice is ineffective.

Ok boomer.

A simple change of the blastcap into a multi-orifice type has an economical advantage. It forces the stack to act as a longer chimney which improves the vacuum, as a consequence the blast area can be made larger which is good for water and coal consumption.
This is theoretical sound and has been proven in practice.
Kind regards
Jos Koopmans

JP Morgan Chase announced February 24, 2020 that they will no longer provide loans or financing to coal companies in the United States. JP must be doing flip flops in his casket!

I'll bet JP Morgan was not loaning to whaling ships in his day.

Brian

If someone complains to you about the smoke from a locomotive ask them these questions.
Do you keep your auto until it has at least 150 thousand miles on it?
Do you keep your clothing until it is worn out or do you buy new because it is "out of fashion "?
Do you live in a smaller house to save on heating and cooling?
If you buy something, even small things like seasonal decorations
do you expect to use them for at least ten years?

Most people want to point their fingers at every one else and not admit that they are wasting energy, and every thing we buy costs energy.
So if you believe in climate change than quite wasting energy and resources.

Oh and someone once said the all the vehicles coming to see a locomotive create more pollution than the locomotive .

Definitely.

Because being combative is an EXCELLENT way to serve your organization's mission.

I'm reasonably certain the questions above can be posed in a non-"combative" fashion.

However, fair warning:

We are not going to be confronting people asking innocent "isn't that pollution?" questions.

Inevitably, at some point, we're going to be confronting tactics like this:

https://www.railwayage.com/regulatory/o ... tar-sands/



I'd like to be wrong. But seeing as it's now been demonstrated that a bedsheet will stop not only a train but an entire major freight corridor unless and until decisive counter-action is taken by political leaders, or trains start barreling through such protests in spite of people getting "martyred," it's the hand we're being fraudulently dealt from a stacked deck.