In the above photo of Clemons #2, there is some interesting plumbing in the left injector feed line line. There is a "T" in the line with the diverting line going into the smokebox.

Why would anyone want to put water into the smokebox?

So the heisler was by far the fastest of the geared locomotives?

Purely a guess, but would Heisler have equipped these locomotives with an economizer?

That's probably a pretty safe statement, at least for nearly all cases. I have run all 3, a couple when in revenue service. Many examples of the Climax were especially hard riding and were better suited to switching and slow speed work. But wow, could they pull.

The Shay rode better, but generally operated at less than 15 mph, frequently less than that. The Pacific Coast type was geared even lower than std. 80-3 and 90-3 models and you could feel the difference.

The Heisler touted being faster. I had heard about the operation in WA of the 91 on a mainline move. That's really battin' the stack, but it apparently did happen. I've never gone that fast in one but they are quite happy at speeds well above the other two. FWIW, you could could keep to the schedule on the Mt. Rainier Scenic with the 91, but certainly not so with Climax 10.

The Heisler ads mention the WCS being fitted with a feedwater heater. maybe the injector plumbing relates to that. What is the UED Collection?

Earl, this is just a stab here, but bear with me. Silica in untreated water becomes coated on turbine blades and also on the insides of superheater elements. This was not usually looked at as a problem on railroad locomotives, but at higher pressures of 400 lbs. and up, it causes a pressure drop than can pop tubes or slow down turbines.

I looked at what you spoke of on the Clemons engine and am wondering if the Heisler people came up with a way to wash the superheater just like it was done in the steam industry. We used to wash the 500 lb. steam turbines on our feed pumps on the run when they needed it. We did it with hot boiler feed water through a small line & very carefully. I did this number of times and you would pick up a substantial number of turns on the rpm. On superheater tubes, it would reduce the pressure drop across the inlet and outlet and also clean the steam side for better heat transfer. Just my thoughts.

John D. Lewis told me that Climax offered a 20:40 ratio (2:1) in response to western demands for higher speeds sought by western lumber companies due their to longer distances of typical western logging companies (their version of a West Coast Special).

CN 1551 gear ratio is 16:41 (2.5625)

Thanks for all the response.
I try to answer some questions.

@tom
Yes I am aware of the 85% cutoff in their 1930 catalog but I use the published 75% TE, that make it more comparable to the other geared manufacturers who used 75%.

Yes they changed their gear ratio.
The ratio for big engines 75t and 85t was 1,75:1 starting 1912.
In early 1920s when they change the models to 80t, 90t and introduce the 70t ratio go to 2,00:1, increasing the power +14%, decreasing the speed -14%.
In another forum I read about complain from Ohio Match Co. about bad steaming ability of their 90t build in 1924. My guess is when they lowered the gearing the boiler, firebox and heating surface remain unchanged. That lead to not enough steam for the cylinders when really hard working. btw OMCo upgrated that loco to superheat and piston valves sometimes (no date that I know) and is now sitting in a park in Lewsiston, ID.
Then with the intrduction of the West Coast Special the gear ratio lowered to 2,18:1, give another 9% more power for the loss of 9% top speed. Also the cylinder bore was increased by 1/4 inch. With superheating this should have no impact on steaming because the water consumption go back 20-30% maybe more.

The other Climax 100tonner was actually their first:
CN 1638 build July 1923 for Buckley Logging Co. #4 in Buckley, WA.
One of the few engines I do not have a pic. But there are four in the Climax book!

@John
Yes in 1928 Climax realised first that this market change and go down and suspend the company.
But before in regard of superheat with piston valves it was the innovator!!! Really overseen nowadays.
They start deliver superheated piston valves equipped engines in May 1923,
- 7 months before Willamette do,
- almost 3 years before Heisler,
- 4 1/2 years in advance of the Pacific Coast Shay.
And their market share was equal with the other ones on the northwestern trade:
Superheated piston valve equipped "woods engines" with minimum 30000 (or close to) TE:
22 Climax Manufacturing Company
22 Heisler Locomotive Works
24 Lima Locomotive Works (Pacific Coast Shay)
18 Willamette Iron & Steel

plus some rod engines
19 Alco (only 2-8-2t with lateral motion device on the front driving axle)
24 Baldwin (only 2-6-6-2t, tender locos i do not rate woods engines)

@ Brian
see above the timeline of innovation is
Climax
Willamette
Heisler
Shay

@John
UED are my initials.
So my collection. Started after my first visit to Cass, WV in 1990.

Good day UED:

Regarding your statement "The ratio for the big engines 75t and 85t was 1.75:1 starting 1912".

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I helped put Heisler c/n 1268 (1913) back together @ Castro Point, CA in 1970 and spent the summer of 1972 running Heisler c/n 1252 (1912) at Klamath, CA.

Both of these had 24:12 or 2:1 gearing. Pickering Lbr. Corp. records also show this same figure as well as the other pair of 3 truckers, Heisler 1272 (1913) and the ex- Hetch Hetchy machine built in 1918. All 4 had 2:1 gearing. Perhaps the 1.75:1 ratio was an option then.

I would like to know of any 3T Heislers that actually operated with 1.75:1 gearing. The Hetch Hetchy Heisler was number 2 on the Pickering. She was considered too small in later years and saw very few miles while the other 3 sometimes got as much as 12,000 miles yearly. Pickering had eastbound grades of 4.7%. The empties frequently required a pair of Heislers to get up to Schoettgen Pass at Mile 28..

Earl,
I have no idea what that plumbing from the ejector to the fire box is for.

When you look closely all the 4 above had it. I checked lot of others and yes most of the "modern" have it, but not all.
So I guess was something optional and it is on both injectors left and right.

Surprisingly some old saturated had it too. So has nothing to do with superheat.

The first I found it is just the third 3-truck ever build, Sunset Timber #1 from 1913 later
Standard Lumber then Pickering Lumber. Photos from the Pickering era show a plugged
hole in the firebox.

Luckily I found a builder photo of Smith Powers #8 from 1916. That engine has the air pump on the other side so you
can see all the plumbing - it go to the firebox and came back.
Look below. Maybe somebody know what it is.

Then I try to find a surviving example who maybe still have it...no luck.
KPM #102 had it, but at MRSR not any more.

tom,
first thank you very much for helping to keep that engines alive then.

The problem is in neither catalog I have define regular or optional gearing.

The only way is to calculate:

Catalog. Catalog Catalog Catalog
1913 1913 1923 1923
1915 1915

75ton 85ton 80ton 90ton
17x15 18x16 17x15 18x16
200 psi 200 psi 200psi 200psi
38" wheels 40" wheels 38" wheels 40" wheels
75% 75% 75% 75%

calculated TE without gearing is
17112lbs 19440lbs 17112lbs 19440lbs

Catalog TE is
30000lbs 34000lbs 34220lbs 38880lbs

calculated gear ratio is
1,75:1 1,75:1 2,00:1 2,00:1

I can not tell if the catalog wrong, usually the sales department give the more fortunate data,
or if the later 4 Pickering Heislers all ordered with non catalog TE / gearing by 4 different customers,
or if they regeared sometimes during lifetime?

The photo of the odd feedwater plumbing is pretty cool. I've not seen that before. I took a stab at figuring it out. Per John T's post, I believe it was in fact for a rudimentary feedwater heater mounted in the smokebox. On a long, sustained trip, running the injector at a constant rate, and through a feedwater heater, would be optimum.

So I took the liberty of drawing on the photo to illustrate my 2 cents worth. There are four valves that I can see, one of which (#3) being the normal shut-off valve at the connection to the boiler. This valve would normally be open during operation. In theory, if you were to close valve #1 and open valves #2 and #4, the feedwater would flow in a loop through the smokebox to be pre-heated, then through valve #3 into the boiler. During operations where pre-heat was not needed (switching, short trips, etc.), opening valve #1 and closing valves #2 and #4 would then allow water to go directly to the boiler.

Also, just to muddle the waters a bit, I took a few minutes and went out to count the teeth on the gears of Kinzua Pine Mills #102 (MRSR #91) and ex-Pickering #10 (c/n 1272). The #102 is 24:13 (1.84), and the #10 is 24:11 (2.18). The pinion shaft from the tender truck of #102, and the pinion shaft from the middle truck of #10 are lying on pallets, so I'm pretty sure about those numbers.

Brian

That 24:13 ratio for ex-Pickering #10 (c/n 1272) really didn't sound right to me. I was pretty sure that Tom was correct in that it was 24:12 so I dug the pallet out with the forklift to get a better look at it. Sure enough, I miscounted the teeth. There are 12. What threw me off is that the straight gear at the other end of the shaft has 13 teeth. (First photo)

The pinion from Kinzua Pine Mills #102 (MRSR #91) does really have only 11, though. I picked it up to take a photo of it, too. (Second photo)

Brian

Brian,
cool that you make all that effort... THANK YOU!

You have any idea if during the shutdown of MRSR it is planned to repair the connection
to the third truck of KPM 102?

With your thoughts of the injector plumbing. Yes make sense. I was thinking the same
just was not sure if the injector working when you add maybe 10+ feet more piping?
Was looking half of last night to find something on US Patent server, but nothing who
come close.

Then I see the Cia. Maderera De Durango #4 Heisler build in 1928 still have the plumbing.
Nobody here who can go to El Salto Mex. open the smoke box and look...just kidding.

I want to thank you Brian for sharing this information regarding Heisler gearing. I'd long been of the mind that the 90 ton West Coast Sp. had to have had a bit lower gearing to have claimed that large a jump in t.e.than the 85 ton model, but had no resources to prove same. Your work & measurement is of great help.