Let the equipment get dirty. Especially if you're trying to model a later steam period. For places like Strasburg where during normal times, trains would run all week long this wouldn't be hard. It lessens the effect of the model train look where everything is shiny and new. The only downside is that you'd have to deal with public perception but that could be dealt with. On just about every single road I've ridden, there's always some sort of mention of what's pulling the train. "Old number 97 was built by such and such works in such and such year." It wouldn't be hard to add something along the lines of Old 97 is being allowed to get dirty to star in a special event showcasing a bygone era where equipment wasn't spiffed up to such a high standard as is done here or something along those lines.

Ya know Kelly, anyone that expected a correct late 50s era freight consist for that event has never been to Strasburg. You guys have done more than enough of these freights to get a pretty good idea of what a 611 freight would look like. I would think the vast majority of the attendees knew what was available, and the ability just to do a freight with the 611 made up for any non-period lapses in train structure and consist. It's not like there have been many chances to photograph the J with a freight train. A few mainline freight runs on NS over the years with way too modern equipment and two events at the NC Transportation Museum is about it. For what it was, the Strasburg freight was by far the best event up to this point to see 611 with a freight train, and I think the results speak for themselves. I was certainly quite happy with what I came back home with.

Hindsight being 20/20, operational conditions permitting, I might have tried to change the order of the cars and moved some of the larger, later era boxcars up to the front of the train and buried the older Union Line and Ma & Pa cars a bit further back in the consist to try and approximate something that could have happened, but that's really very minor quibbles.

In the end, there are very few places in this day and age where you're going to be able to accurately re-create the steam era. Something is almost always amiss, and you should know and expect that going in. This is more for the fun and getting a feel of what it was like for those who never got to see it in person. Expecting more than that is just being overly picky.
Kevin

When all else fails, just tell the complainers that there's a prototype for everything.

Seriously. I've seen enough strange sights in modern railroading that I'll believe pretty much anything a Museum puts behind their locomotive. Just because there isn't historic photographic evidence of it really happening doesn't mean that it didn't, or couldn't have happened. Perhaps the same thing happened on a different railroad, New Haven leasing some B&M cabooses would be a good explanation for that above photo.

Assuming they are roadworthy, it wouldn't hurt to put some 'rough' unrestored freight cars in the train to give a truly authentic look. Then as now, the railroads sometimes ran equipment until it was literally falling apart. Take these examples from a CN worktrain in 1970, one even has a Kar-Track barcode:

https://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/ab/ ... lz_009.jpg

https://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/ab/ ... lz_001.jpg

There's nothing exclusive to railroading for these photo events.
I've heard the same for such events with old airplanes. There was a shoot with a B-17 bomber scheduled in my hometown in the 90s once and the organizers came out that day to check out the scene (mostly to remove anything modern looking). I had a display of WW2 flight gear on tables and I was wearing the stuff as well.
the photo shoot people simply declared around me (and not even to me) that I was going to make all my stuff available for their use for 'models' that were coming and also that I was not to be there to "intrude" on the photo shoot that night.
I walked over to the conversation and said, "Uh, guys, seeing that you're talking about me, you might want to talk to me on this point."
I then told them as calmly as I could that I was not part of the airplane crew, not subject to any of the demands, and even though there was no way I was going to go along with their insanity anyway, they ensured it would never happen by not even talking directly to me. Also, there's no way anyone like me would ever leave their collection in the hands of total strangers if they were sane, and without allowing any of them to get a word in edgewise, I ended for the most part with, "...and the horse you rode in on," and walked back to my display.
Some of the airplane crew would snicker each time they walked past my display for the rest of the day from recollection of my reaction, and a couple of them made it clear they really appreciated what I'd said.
When I packed up my stuff at the end of the day, the photographers were begging (one even on his knees) to stay and hang around in flight gear. I pointed to the organizers of the shoot and said, "go ask them why I'm leaving," and never looked back.
I've often wondered what happened that night.

Wow! Just Wow! Good for you. Others might not have handled the situation as gracefully.

As a frequent charter participant, ideally, this is what we would like to do, but as you might imagine, most railroads want their locomotives to be lettered correctly for their railroad until just before the charter and then quickly brought back to the correct livery afterward. The cleaning process that is required before these conversions is usually what leads to the look you describe. The worst is when you end up with a filthy locomotive and a shiny, clean tender. In fact, a few years back, one prominent charter organizer adopted the practice of having his crew apply the appropriate "patina" to the locomotive, the night before the event....with the permission of the railroad, of course. He typically used a mix of water and cinders, applied with an air hose. Unfortunately, on more than one occasion, a railroad crew that was not in on the plan wiped out a couple of hours worth of effort in just a minute or two with a hose. Stuff happens. If the steam engine doesn't break and nobody gets hurt, it's a good day.

Here's an example of a photo from a charter I did a few years back in which the train probably was a "little too clean."

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/620604/

I'm probably as much of an authenticity snob as anyone, and I'm perfectly fine with this. I think that the lighting, the location and the uniqueness of the camera angle far outweigh any issues with the cleanliness or the presence of a spark arrestor on the stack. I suspect that among the 6,000 or so folks who have looked at this shot online, the vast majority probably didn't immediately wince and think the train was too clean-looking.

Given the dearth of photo opportunities this year, I'd give my eye teeth to be shooting a nice, clean train today. :o)

/Kevin Madore

Only US "vintage" one I've seen was at a Conway Scenic Railfan weekend back in September 2013.
It was the only way of covering the track between North Conway and Conway, as tickets were available to travel in the caboose.

It certainly "looked the part" and beyond the Maine boxcar there was a tank car and a couple of hoppers, one of which was from the N&W. Apart from the odd yellow boxcar, the stock looked as if it had just come "out of the box", but I certainly wasn't complaining!

Amen. I was on a charter in a hotel room in Oregon when the Strasburg events were announced. I have been there innumerable times since 1972, and ridden multiple charters there before. To have 611 and 475 on a country railroad, with one of the best sunrise locations in the US, and have the event directed by one of the most experienced charter organizers in the business today, made the decision to buy tickets to all 4 weekend sessions at 4:30 AM before leaving the hotel room a no-brainer. Yeah, it was a large event with a lot of people, but it's a wide-open railroad with nice scenery and the folks running the event did a great job. Well worth it.

And BTW, I did see the post from a gentleman whom I assume works for a railroad about his experience with one or more charter disasters. Again, as a VERY frequent participant in these types of events, my experience is that the vast majority of them run very smoothly, and that most of the folks who participate are very nice, friendly, and cooperative people. Yes, there area a few notable exceptions, but if communications are working well between the railroad and the charter operator, a friendly word to the operator will usually get the problem resolved. Most of the operators I know are very good at dealing with people issues. It is part of their job.

/Kevin Madore

Several people have said it, but I will second it - it is amazing that so many photo freight and special charter operations go well, and are even done. They are a lot of hard work for everyone - railroad and planner. I've spent more than a year of my own time working with a railroad, scouting locations, checking sun angles, helping to get cars and locomotives in shape for the event, etc.

One of the keys is to have a clear contract and a clear plan for the event. I generally produce a detailed plan with the railroad so everyone knows what is going on, plus when and where. We also try to have backup plans - alternative equipment (I once had to replace a 2-8-2 with a Heisler on an event, an Alco for a Lima, and strap toilets on a freight car after other plans failed) and locations (ever have a construction crew show up the day of an event?).

Probably the biggest issue that I have ever had is suddenly people who haven't been involved trying to take charge. As stated "Unfortunately, on more than one occasion, a railroad crew that was not in on the plan wiped out a couple of hours worth of effort in just a minute or two with a hose."

On one operation, a member of the board of the railroad suddenly declared that the train could only move at 10mph, even though the plan was for 25mph. This member had missed every planning meeting, but was there for the "free event." On a second railroad, a board member starting quoting "FRA Rules" that prohibited much of what we were doing. However, I have taught FRA regulations for decades and often check with the FRA if I am doing something new. After challenging the board member's qualifications to cite FRA regs. (he had none) and showing him the real rules, the rest of the board asked him to leave the event. In both cases, I and the railroad looked bad because this was done in front of a paying crowd. Again, the key is making sure everyone is included in the planning, if possible, or make sure there is clear authority.

Finally, one of the other issues is freeloading. I have had a loyal group that travels from around the world to some of my trips and photo trains. They pay a lot to get here and participate. However, it seems that every once in a while a few folks show up to photo from the roads (and even the photo spots) without paying. In one case, we unloaded for a photo with a railroad building and a freeloader was upset that we ruined his photo. I asked him to donate or leave, and then got this "I paid a lot to get here" comment, as if everyone else got here free. Then he commented on there being no Southern Hospitality. My comment back was that we were hospitable, but still didn't let Yankees rape our women. He kept following along, but at least didn't stick around when we stopped, or tried to walk in to our backwoods stops.

This means I try to have at least a few photo spots in locations that are hard or impossible to get to without permission. When you can ride in a drovers caboose, or have a mixed train look, it is easier. Other times, I have held photos on private property where a ticket is required to get in. At least there is something unique for the paying participants.

A friend and I were discussing this thread yesterday, and also talking about some of the early tourist lines and the vintage freight equipment that was adapted to passenger service. I remember in the '60s (and a bit later) at least four tourist operations that used former Lehigh and New England composite 40 foot gons (or at least very similar cars) as open air cars.

If memory serves, those cars were used at Strasburg, Black River, WK&S and on the Valley. Just out of curiosity, are any of those cars still around, and possibly available? I know of two operators that would like to add to their fleet of vintage freight cars for photo charters. Those gons would be a natural, and with a little careful work, could double as open air cars, if needed.

In dealing with free loaders I watched a director try to figure out how to block public access to public lands.
That did not go well. Another event that I did not whitness but heard about, a charter operator harrassed a person on private land that the RR had no control over. To make matters worse the charter operator was being an jerk to a supporter of the RR.
A certain RR this year used road closures and pilot lines to reduce the free loaders. While it appears they got thru it without a pilot line accident, if there had been one they probably would have lost in court just in lawyer fees alone.
In some people's zeal to deal with free loaders they create more problems than they solve.

Robby Peartree

"In some people's zeal to deal with free loaders they create more problems than they solve."

On one of the Strasburg charters with the 611 (was either Sunday or Monday) the security / police officer that was at Paradise went to chase away a "free loader" who was on the other side of the tracks, no possible way of getting any great photos. In chasing him away he was standing in the way of many peoples shots when the Amtrak train came through.

Another officer stepped into my going away video shot that I had set up at one of the grade crossings.


(don't take that as me complaining.. just stating facts. I got MORE than enough money shots from that weekend and had a great time).

In the case of the operation you mentioned, it wasn't entirely the railroad's decision, nor was dealing with freeloading the primary issue. Both the railroad and the state had concerns before the event about the high probability of accidents if the operation were not well-controlled. With or without control, there is always the possibility of an accident, but in the end, I believe that the state mandated that control was the only option they would allow. Positive control was established not only for the transient traffic, but also for the participants and in the end, it was very well done. It also turned out to be very expensive and labor-intensive and the railroad indicated that it was unlikely they'd be operating the subject equipment again on the west side of the line, where observation was possible from paved, public roads.

If you read the public documents from that railroad I believe they paint a slightly different picture on the subject. The documennts mention not having a repeat of the issues that happened with th UP Big Boy tour. This is something that most employees in a DOT would not be aware of. Further, since most states have only a limited liability exposure the RR was on the liability hook. Such lawsuits would kill most railroad operations.
Given that the DOT from one of the states was there to discuss grade crossings before the event I think what did happen was a fluke.
In the early 2000's that same RR had trouble with gas trucks not stopping for the crossings and they have had other issues along these lines. Given the timing of the event, the distance from medical facilities, and the dangers of that road restrictions create they were lucky it worked as well as it did.

Robby

It's probably not the event you're talking about, but I personally saw something like that, where someone was being harassed by such an operator, when the guy was standing on his own land. He'd just been working his field when he saw a bunch of people walk up to the tracks and walked up wondering why.
It got ugly and a shotgun got pulled out (again, the man was standing on his own land), though not pointed at anyone. That could have gotten very ugly. I don't think many people were on that side of the tracks who even saw it. But I did.
It was many years ago, wont go into when/where...