I know it is a long shot but does anyone happen to know if any of the LIRR RS-1 battleship numbers survived into a private collection someplace? Prior to re-making these, I was hoping maybe somebody had one someplace to copy the design from?

Thanks

Fred

So why call these "battleship" numbers? I'm not the most familiar with Long Island practice, so the reasoning is entirely unknown to me. They just look like numbers that were cut out of some sort of metal and mounted on the locomotive.

Cause they look like the huge numbers the US Navy paints on the bow of their ships.

I understand the Norwegian navy puts bar codes on the bows of their ships, instead of numbers.


This so that, when they come into port, they can "Scan-da-Navy in."

OK, back to your previous programming.

Post WWII the LIRR started to transition to diesels. Among the earliest mainline diesels were the FM C Liners and H series road switchers as well as the second group of Alco RS-1s, delivered in the Tichy scheme. These locos carried prominent "naval style" numbers on the nose. The C Liner with the black shading, looks most like what you would see on the bow of a warship. I assume this paint scheme's use of the numbers was influenced by the times. Hence the term battleship numbers.

In an unrelated note, in the late 1970s, one president of the LIRR was the leading US WWII fighter ace in the ETO, Francis Gabreski. I believe he named multiple pieces of LIRR equipment after WWII fighter planes (example: the wedge plow JAWSIII). His story and history are worth a read.

Alco RS1 467 is the last LIRR locomotive left around to have worn the paint scheme, and it is to this livery I will restore her.

Fred

midwest fred -

The pilots and horns on those light gray body "Tichy scheme" diesels appear red in some photos I've seen and orange in others. What was the color?

Les

Red.

China Red was a common attention getting safety color at the time. We've also found it at the base layer of the paint on our 44 tonner at the CT Eastern RR Museum, ex-LIRR 400.

Thanks for the info. My recollection of the color was "International Red." There's probably many variations of it. Have you scanned any of the red you have found? What colors I have found on 467 is nothing of the original. I think the cab was painted 5 or 6 times, and the carbody was stripped at some point, so I have yet to find any of the original gray color. I believe your 44 tonner was painted in the Tichy scheme early on, although I'm not certain I've seen a color photo of it with the grey looking like that on the other locos of the day. Have you found any of the light bluish gray anywhere?

Fred

All the LIRR FM's, the GE 44T, and the RS1's were painted in Tichy around 1950. The RS1's arrived in black, with Pennsy style "Long Island" lettering. The Tichy came on as the LIRR began to split from the parent Pennsy, and Dieselization began in earnest. The pilots of the C-Liners, and foot board faces of the other units were red. This lasted only a short time, as orange was decided to be more visible. While beautiful, much most early Diesel schemes appeared, the Tichy schemes showed oily smudges of soot on the roofs. Touch up painting was a bear as well. Around 1955, all Tichy paint was changed to a darker gray and orange. It was a change, but not a very colorful one, so the FM's were repainted yet again with dark gray bodies, orange faces and the "Dashing Dan" logo. The FM's died in 1964-65, with the arrival of the ALCO Century 420's, wearing a designer World's Fair scheme, called the "swoop". All the remain ALCO road units took on the same World's Fair "swoop", while yard switchers (ALCO S1 and S2's) wore the earlier gray bodies with orange faces and cab backs. The 44 tonner never wore the "swoop" before it was sold.
Long Island gray last until the NY State MTA changed everything over to blue and yellow.

Fred,
The 400 arrived Dec 1950 with the Tichy scheme, but with an odd logo on the cab, received the built in class lights ~1955 , and then the Dashing Dan scheme without the DD logo ~1960

Unfortunately it looks like the Valley did a good job in completely removing the paint from the hood and cab exterior, but inside the work order bin, I did find some Slate Grey areas where the interior paint was rubbed away, but not positive interior grey was the same as the exterior grey. For the red, it looks like the Valley never stripped the railings or the pilot structure (or what ever the plates and bars that held the foot boards are called). Here is a nice cross section from the pilot bar, IIRC that was 1000 grit paper held to a board and cleaned with a wet thumb, just to see if anything was left. Shiny white IIRC was bare metal. It was just a quick test to see if anything was left back on a rainy day back in 2013, not sure if illumination was an incandescent Mag-light or LED, taken with a digital camera.



The lettering is overall smaller than all the other Ticheys, with thin shadow on the right side, not sure they did the light grey 3D effect like they did on the larger letters. Font might match the cars. I'm not sure of the color of the horizontal bar, I'm thinking it might be Day-Glo Orange, in other photos you can see it prints different than the railings and pilot, but still has a red tone. I would love to find a full broad side photo (or her paint diagram) of her to get proper proportions on the letters.


This one is the base of the railing. Red would be the 1950 Tichey, I'm guessing the creamy green (looks more pumpkin / light orange in the other photo) would be Dashing Dan in 1960, Yellow is Black River & Western in 1965, and the 2 layers of black is Valley RR (Essex Ct) in 1970 and not sure when they gave her the NYNH&H scheme.

Awesome. Thanks. That might be the best tichy red sample around. I have the paint diagrams for world fair rs1 and rs3 but they only reference paint numbers without a manufacturer reference. Wish I could find more to work with. At some point I plan to remove the radiator shutter assemblies and am hoping to find tichy gray at that point.

Appreciate the help !

Fred

Fred, or any LIRR historian, Do you know if the cab interior grey was the same as the body exterior grey?

I believe they are not the same. Typical alco cab and body interior was suede gray. The panels I removed and am checking in 467 are along those lines and not the blueish gray of the body exterior.

Fred.

"Suede gray" is an interesting, but fitting description. My recollection is a soft, light gray, and never a dark, charcoal gray.