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 Post subject: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:48 pm
Posts: 487
Location: Potland, Maine
I found this on another site.

It was called a double Fairly-type steam locomotive. Built in the Baldwin shops about in 1909. Photo is 5x7 glass negative.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/fileSendA ... 20354v.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:39 pm
Posts: 69
Baldwin ? ? It has the rotating over smoke stack cover flaps. That yells French. The photograph is dated 3 - 24 - 15 for March 24 1915 and the loco does not show 6 years of wear, from 1909 to 1915.

Check out the petcocks on the side of the water tank to check level !

I think this is a emulsion film positive print, that was taped onto black stock paper as was used in the old days for photo albums or photo mounts. You can see the tape holding it down to the black paper that has scissor cuts on the edge of the black paper. Also if it was a negative it would be reversed color and you would be able to see the edge of the glass slide. No glass edge, it is a paper print. That web site must have the picture miss-labeled. At least that is the impression I get, others may differ.

Sorry for the updates, I have not figured out how to delete a pic once it is added.


Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:39 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
Looks to me like a European prototype, perhaps with some kind of radiating-axle articulation, that I'd immediately think was intended for trench service in WW1. I have no time to research this now, but someone should do it.

Someone with a copy of Lionel Wiener's Articulated Locomotives look up what that motionwork is likely to be.

There weren't many true Double Fairlies (note sp.) so this will not be hard to track down.

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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:47 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am
Posts: 173
It is a Péchot - Bourdon locomotive.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:P%C3%A9chot-Bourdon_locomotives

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2055
Location: Southern California
484Mike wrote:
And it is a Baldwin built for the French military. BLW c/n 41944.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:39 pm
Posts: 69
Wow, built by Baldwin for the French military, 1915 .


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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:35 pm 

Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 12:35 am
Posts: 25
A photo of one of the surviving locomotives can be seen at the Frankfurter Feldbahnmuseum's website here:

https://www.feldbahn-ffm.de/dampflokomotiven/

(Note that it's #20 on their list)


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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:17 pm
Posts: 246
Was something like this ever experimented with in North America ? Wonder why a NA RR or builder never experimented with a garret design.


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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:22 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
Quote:
Was something like this ever experimented with in North America?
No, but that wasn't for slacking on the part of Beyer-Peacock, who had the rights to the design. If I remember correctly, Alco acquired a license to build them at one point -- there might have been others, not just for domestic markets.
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Wonder why a NA RR or builder never experimented with a Garratt [note sp.] design.
That is less difficult -- the license fee. You wouldn't think that alone would prevent anyone from trying it, but it was acknowledged as a principal reason. Trains Magazine had an article on 'Super-Garratts' in the early 1970s... these were not enormous locomotives in the sense North American practice evolved Mallets into large simple articulateds, but they did represent a way to get twelve driving axles into a very flexible package with enormous boiler, suitable for high power in minimum space.

A proper modern 2-6-6-2+2-6-6-2 built to N&W class A running dimensions might have been highly interesting to behold. Instead, by the time the Super-Garratt designs started being promoted, in the mid-Thirties, traffic was in the grip of the Depression, and after WWII there was no interest in radical new steam of this kind. Had we carried on to an invasion of the Japanese home islands, transcontinental traffic might have picked up to the point a reliable locomotive that size would be advantageous... as it was, even the PRR Q2s had no effective mission once 'wartime speeds' ceased to be a factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:48 pm
Posts: 487
Location: Potland, Maine
Here's a cutaway view.


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 Post subject: Re: Never Seen a Baldwin Steam Engine Like This!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:25 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
Remember, though, that IIRC the French locomotives only have a single firebox, not the 'double ender' arrangement with side firing that is pictured.

It is a pity they don't show the frankly ingenious arrangement Fairlie devised to get a single reverse to control both sets of valve gear ... on curves.

Incidentally, those of you who are thinking may already be asking 'isn't that locomotive going to have the same problem getting draft on curves that a Baldwin Centipede had with traction-motor cooling?' A good class of answer can be found in Mason's bogie designs and patents... be interesting to see how the Pechot-Bourdon locomotive does this.

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