Just another day at the office… last Tuesday apprentice boilermaker Matt removed the front flue sheet from East Broad Top locomotive #16. A cutting torch and grinder made short order of the task. A new sheet will replace the existing.

Delivered in 1916, it was the first of the largest group of the railroad’s steam engines, incorporating new features like piston valves and superheating – able to haul 60 empty hopper cars from Mount Union to Rockhill Furnace.

The last locomotive to be overhauled before the 1956 closing of the common carrier era; it’s expected to be the first back in service. Other than being pulled out of the roundhouse for display during a few special events, since the mid 1950’s it has sat idle in the shadows… waiting for the limelight.

Follow the link below to my photos.

Enjoy,
Matthew

https://www.losttracksoftime.com/p47324941

Thanks Matthew for sharing your wonderful photos with us.

Another chapter unfolding in what will undoubtedly be THE restoration story of at least this decade as it will be a once in a lifetime pleasure to witness this one of a kind treasure come fully back to life.

Exciting times. Ross Rowland

You are most welcome.

A few have questioned safety while capturing these images. I wore a flame-retardant nomex jump suit, gloves, headwear, with steel toed boots and safety glasses. Very little of my facial skin was exposed, the rest of my body completely covered. It was a cool morning so I was very comfortable in the environment. I had clear filters on the front of the camera lenses for protection; both me and my equipment ended the session as healthy as we began it.

Matthew

A question from the back of the class.

If the locomotive was overhauled so close to the closure in 1956 why is it necessary to replace part of the flue sheet? Did the metal age in place or is the replacement needed to meet current 1472 day rules?

Thank you.

Wesley

Wesley, Important to remember that this well funded projects goal is bring back to life the entire EBT enterprise ( railroad & steam powered shop complex) and have it running year round as a national attraction.

Therefore, any parts in a locomotive that need to be replaced to ensure multi decade reliability will be replaced while they're at it.

I would recommend joining the Friends of the EBT organization so you can participate in this exciting project.

Ross Rowland

FTS are notorious for rotting out from the outside in - soot buildup on the smokebox side leached acids when damp which eat into the metal when sitting cold, and the draft picks up grit and sandblasts it clean when running hard, also eroding it. Don't know what EBT historically did in terms of water chemistry but that could make a difference from the inside out as well.

I don't know why the front tube sheet is being renewed.

From general knowledge:
1) As others have mentioned, soot and crud will lay against the bottom of the sheet, and rust it thin at the bottom knuckle.
2) Waterside corrosion at the knuckle, making it thin, especially towards the bottom.

Based on the fact that they took the entire portion out with holes:
3) Cracks in the ligaments between the holes, or beginning at the holes.
4) Holes too large from several rollings of tubes over the years.

My Two Cents,
MJ

Mark and Dave,

Thank you for your analysis. Yours was the information I was looking for. I did not question the decision by EBTF. I wanted to understand the process.

Wesley

Question for Mark J., or anyone else for that mater.

While slightly unrelated to EBT 16, is there a general tolerance factor that will tell you the flue or tube plate hole is too large? Is there a rule of thumb percentage, or an actual dimension that applies to a/all locomotives?

I feel like that is a very interesting bit of technical information that hasnt really been readily available.

Oversized tube holes can be welded up on the ID and reamed back to spec dimension provided everything else is in good shape. Thimbles or shims were also used by being expanded into the tube hole before having the tube put in and expanded into the thimble...... but if several things are going on at the same time replacement is the best option. The thinning of the water side knuckle at the bottom suggests washouts maybe didn't get to all the scale in that blind area. Still, sounds like EBT got their money's worth out of her before shutting down.

It is also important to remember the term Overhaul varies from railroad to railroad and time period. Not to question the quality of their work back in the day but one must remember ultrasounds are a new tool.
I've had several projects "streetcars" that supposedly were rebuilt good as "new" only a few years before being pulled from service only to find lots of skeletons in the closets once we tore into them; Bondo, patches over patches, spliced electrical pulls, etc.

Greetings:
I am not aware of any universal tolerance for the clearance between a new tube or superheater flue and it's hole in the tube/flue sheet.
My "rule of thumb" is that the hole in the sheet oughtn't be more than about 1/32" larger than the tube (or swaged tube) to go into the hole for tubes of 2"~2-1/4" and 1/16" for 4-3/8~ 4-1/2" flues, 1/8" for 5-3/8"~5-1/2" flues. A typical (Gustav-Wiedike figure 40 or 107 tube roller) has enough expansion range to roll a tube or flue tight without over rolling.
Should the hole be much larger than mentioned above, then a ferrule ( or as Dave calls them: thimbles) can be installed. Ferrules can be copper or steel (steel is better if you are going to seal weld the tubes or flues as in the event that the copper squishes out into where you plan to seal weld, it will make it difficult to make a good seal weld). Ferrules (in my experience) are best installed with a sectional spring expander (G-W figure 300). I usually roll them lightly after expanding to make sure they don't shift during the tube rolling (which will tend to spoil your day). Ferrules generally are available 1/16"+/- and thicker, sized to fit the tube after expanding.
In the event that your holes are too large for a ferrule to be used, then as Dave says: "weld up the hole and ream to spec. dimension".
Some railroads believed that copper ferrules should be used even with new work, others only used ferrules when needed and others wouldn't use them at all! A lot depends on your water quality, firing expertise of your firemen, availability of the proper tools and the expertise of the work force.
Good luck! Happy rolling!
J.David

And..... it isn't uncommon for one of the holes to be purposely made larger so it can be used to pass old tubes out through, especially in superheated engines. Found that in UP 4466 along time ago..... UP Joe called it the "pass hole" and you had to listen carefully.

.

I found it interesting that the top portion of the tube sheet with the interior bracing rods was left intact. Is that still the plan, and to fit in and weld a new tube sheet as a partial?

We had to do a rear door sheet on TSRR 400 (the 2-8-2) several years ago and the skill on getting that welded in properly around the mud ring convinced me that about anything is probably possible, but I'm still intrigued about piecing in a tube sheet and leaving the top portion in when you're working around those bracing rods and the superheater tube holes.

I've also seen damage done to tube sheets in the process of cutting, retubing and welding rather than proper welding that essentially took the tube sheet past the point of no return, but I think the corrosion and thickness looks like the answer here as Kelly said.