So you're basically making something up. I have never actually heard one person - or seen a single post - say a single thing which lends credence to what you say.



Somehow, if you went on about how "the younger generation just doesn't like working with their hands" to them, i feel they'd disagree.



Bold claims from someone who based half his argument on "Well you see they're teaching these damn kids liberalism which obviously means they hate trains"

Also - good point on mentioning NUMTOTS. Quite a lot of people i know at least think trains are cool, even if they're not slobbering railfans like me.

Just because you personally have not experienced something does not mean that it does not happen.

Are you capable of looking at current events, trends and cultural norms and extrapolate from that? Why is it so far fetched to think that some may develop a negative opinion about steam locomotives when they see copious amounts of smoke, and then make the correlation between smoke and climate change? Heck this has been the object of discussion off an on for decades, even on this forum. Locos don't even have to produce much net CO2 emissions, its the APPEARANCE that can cause the negative impressions.

I am heartened to hear that some of my concerns are unfounded. That is good. Lets hope it stays that way. I am just confounded at why you took such an adversarial tone at even bringing up these concerns? I was told that Gen Zers is an outstanding generation that may become the next "Greatest Generation". You certainly don't represent that generation very well. You seem as closed minded as some of the old fogies, proving that it is not age but attitude that makes the person.

Conversation, not confrontation is how you win people over.

To make a further point, we are working on an eventual conversion of 58 from coal to oil, one of the reasons is to limit the production of smoke. We are aware that as time goes on, the public's tolerance to seeing visible smoke is going to diminish and we don't want our operation to attract negative attention from smoke production. Do we have to do that? No. But I think it is the right thing to do to fit in with modern expectations.

And now you're resorting to insults...

That wasn't much of an insult.

"Hell - one can see it in your post. You're assuming literally everyone under the age of ~30 believes in cancel culture or whatever, or doesn't like working with their hands etc. Like, how many gen-z'ers have you actually met?"

I considered this an insult.

It's not meant as an insult as much as it is a legitimate question.

As to why i'm so heated about this - I'm simply tired of the same old myths that kids these days don't want to do trains because they're busy on the video games and instagrams. Simple as.

I'm going to analyze the statement above in a cynical fashion, just to play "devil's advocate":

By this account, Gen Z has the (somewhat unrealistic) expectation that everything has to be, MUST be, fair and equal. Anything else is an "injustice" to be condemned.

Thus experience, education, the "school of hard knocks," physical strength and dexterity, etc, are irrelevant.

And they have a very low tolerance for things that don't meet their expectations, for whatever reason.

Taking this stated expectation to its rational extreme--as many out there in the rest of the world already have in other venues--that would mean that a person restricted to a wheelchair should expect to fire a coal-burning loco, or a severely visually-impaired person run a locomotive/trolley, or a deaf person be a trainman.

And when presented with the reality that "the real world" doesn't happen to work in the way they wish it to, their blame goes to the organization, not the "real world." Or, worse, they instantly blame "racism," "sexism," "ageism," or whatever.

This has also been a problem that has bedevilled historic preservation of all kinds across the world. A person in a wheelchair, for example, is not going to do very well in old buildings with narrow staircases and uneven floors. And some insist on seeing (or even seeking out) ANY past "injustices" as something to be confronted, condemned, and addressed NOW. (This is the part where educational training seems to be a factor.) A small but very vocal minority see it as their mission to do so.

I, long ago, had to fire someone who was simply physically not up to the demands of the job, for his own physical safety. He'd already fallen and almost hurt himself badly, and had become a running joke of the other employees. It was sad--he was a reforming ex-alcoholic trying to get his life back on track and needed work--but he was the proverbial "97-pound weakling." But life isn't fair.

Under this "expect everything to be fair and equal" talk, a 20-year-old with a lot of experience in MS Train Simulator or Trainz may walk up and expect to volunteer and start running passenger trains/trolleys the next weekend--over, say, the 38-year-old heavy equipment operator with a CDL, extensive welding experience, etc. who says "how can I get trained to help you where you need me most?"

I haven't personally experienced the latter made-up example, but I'm sure some volunteer coordinators around here might have..............

The cliché/stereotype of the millennial generation is "the generation that has never heard the word 'no'".............

[This screed brought to you by someone that obviously never milked his "disability" to his full advantage...............]

“Under this "expect everything to be fair and equal" talk, a 20-year-old with a lot of experience in MS Train Simulator or Trainz may walk up and expect to volunteer and start running passenger trains/trolleys the next weekend--over, say, the 38-year-old heavy equipment operator with a CDL, extensive welding experience, etc. who says "how can I get trained to help you where you need me most?"

Absolutely. A 20-year old should be able to join the same training a 38 year old can join.
If they both have an interest in operations they both should be given the same path to become part of the operations crew.

Here we go again - with the "Damn millenials and gen-z want everything handed to them! Hard knocks!", ending with getting mad at a Guy you just made up.

As it turns out, nobody i know who's volunteered with a museum has ever demanded they be let in a train after playing trainz. I doubt the story would be true elsewhere.

To heck with the training. He/She/Xe/whatever wants to start running trains tomorrow, in this hypothetical example. You're "oppressing" them.

"What do you mean, I have to go through training?!? That's just being a 'good old boys' club'!!!!! Just because you've ALWAYS done it that way ISN'T FAIR!!!!!! I'M READY!!!!"

Wait'll we tell them the cell phone has to be off while on duty except in emergencies........

I haven't been in a situation to vet volunteers, but I've worked with others who have, and I've heard tales of a few would-be volunteers who didn't want to "jump through the hoops," just as I've seen (and even been) the guy asked to scrape paint endlessly to "start at the bottom."
This unwillingness or lack of eagerness to do what's "needed" as part of striving for what you "want to do," often rightfully seen as some form of initiation or "dues-paying" or "hazing," has ALWAYS been an issue, and not just in railroad preservation. The valid question now is, has it become more common and prevalent now that we're dealing with a generation with, as diplomatically as we can put it. vastly different expectations?

Young people come with fresh ideas, up-to-date understanding of 21st century demands, fresh excitement to contribute, and possibly exciting skills.
Old people come with years of dedication and the knowledge that comes from experience. Many volunteers have given years at their own expense, used their own tools and supplies, and driven countless miles to help out.
All people deserve respect, especially those volunteering their time, energy, and resources. Age, gender, race mean nothing if they are willing to help the cause.

I never said there would be no training. I said the 20 year old and the 38 year old brand new volunteers in your scenario should be given the same opportunities to become part of the operating crew. Their should be a clear path to join the crew, train, and become qualified. It shouldn’t be mysterious.

in regards to smoke.. "anything can be a smoke machine, if you operate it wrong". Most people, even Greta, recognize that a single locomotive putting of some black smoke, is a drop in the bucket compared to say, a Coal power plant in India. I was always told by engineers that if it's Black, sooty smoke, you aren't operating the engine correctly, no matter if it's Steam or diesel. (electric, it goes without saying shouldn't be smoking... unless Tommy Chong is on board, and them, someone better have taken the reverser with them).

Alex - do you have any idea how disrespectful going on about some random person you've invented in your mind as an image of all gen-z people is? Especially the phone comment.

Thank you for being the exact kind of boomer i was mad about.

Be mad all you want.

As long as you ALSO pledge to "be mad" when (NOT "if") you encounter those kind of folks you insist I "invented in my mind" in the real world--and pledge to do something about it.
(You can choose what that "something" is.)