Read this again, and see how thinking about the subject is across the pond...

Feb 2003 Railway Heritage

Posted By: Roger Colton
Date: Friday, 16 May 2003, at 3:45 p.m.

In the February 2003 issue of "Heritage Railway", there is a six-page interview with a media mogul railroad preservationist. As they put it, "Pop impresario Pete Waterman, whose Hit Factory music company gave us, amongst other household names, Kylie Minogue and Steps, has established his rail vehicle maintenance company LNWR as the market leader in contract rolling stock repairs."

In brief, Pete got a start in 1961 in railway service and success in his music career allowed his hobby to transition to a very successful business. For a while, he even owned what is arguably the most well-known steam locomotive in the world, #4472, the "Flying Scotsman".

What caught my attention in this piece were comments that while intended for railway museums and the like, are applicable to anyone who competes for disposable income in today's market. Specifically:

"Â…Our heritage line are not tourist attractions -- they are 'theme parks'.

What we are really saying to the public is 'please come and visit our themed attraction and provide the finance so that for the rest of the year we the steam enthusiasts can play trains'.

Nothing wrong with that, but to achieve it railways must embrace progress and learn the skills of customer care.

Perhaps 15 years ago it was sufficient to steam a restored engine, stick any old coaches behind it and chuff up and down between nowhere and nowhere.

Not so now; the preserved railways have to compete head to head with other theme parks and attractions for a share of visiting families hard-earned money. Our railways need to be clean, accessible, and safe but most of all have family appeal.

The steam buff may tolerate inadequate toilet facilities and 'paper cup tea bars', the 21st Century family will not, they want, and deserve, more 'buzz for their buck'.

Our steam railways, which are really working museums, create enjoyment for a great many people, employment for some and for certain keep alive in hundreds of working volunteers the skills of the past.

The youngsters of today find fascination in recreations of the steam era, the Reverend Awdry's stories (Thomas the Tank Engine) are highly popular, the steam train in the Harry Potter series of movies delighted youngsters worldwide, so where's the problem?

Get it right -- and the paying customers will come. Get it wrong -- and the bank manager will come, wearing that 'I want my money back' expression, and any organisation who fails to get customer care right will have contributed to their own failure."



Heritage Railway Magazine
teamzurg@earthlink.net

> Yes, yes, yes, BUT you guys always forget
> the most important point....we spend too
> much time advertising to the railfans (and
> the people like ourselves) when in fact they
> are less than 1% of the market. Why
> advertise to railfans when they already know
> you exist and will come to ride anyway
> regardless if you advertise.

> You must always focus on the general public.
> They are the bread and butter and make up
> the other 99% of your target audience. As
> far as I'm concerned railfans are a
> non-entity and a very vocal minority at
> best.

AHEM! That is what we've been saying here, sir.

AHEM! Sorry Steve Lee, cough, cough, ugh cuse' me, Steam REalist.

> AHEM! That is what we've been saying here,
> sir.

> You must always focus on the general public.
> They are the bread and butter and make up
> the other 99% of your target audience. As
> far as I'm concerned railfans are a
> non-entity and a very vocal minority at
> best.

Thomas the Tank Engine is an example of outreach to the public which seems to work in this manner..

hi_plain@yahoo.com

> Thomas the Tank Engine is an example of
> outreach to the public which seems to work
> in this manner..

In a slightly less intense way;

Easter Bunny Train
Santa Train
Halloween Train
Wine Train
Picnic Train
Polar Bear Express Train
Train Robbery
Civil War
Caboose Train
Fall Foliage Train
Etc, etc, etc

All of which bear no resemblance to the way a "real" train operated but it brings in the riders.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> Wondering how they do it in England
> ...SUPPORT, SUPPORT, SUPPORT ...wonder what
> it takes ????

How do the Brits do it?

Let us take a look at a few very fundamental differences.

1) The heritage railways operating in the UK own their trackage, or have a very long term lease. (The British terms are freehold and tenancy.)

Do I need to discuss what this means in terms of being able to run steam?

There is a basic fundamental reason as to how British heritage railway groups were able to obtain their trackage. BR was and is a government organization. When Dr. Beeching "rationalized" the BR railsystem in the 60's, anyone who wanted to take over the operation of a surplus line could do so by simple application. The line could be aquired by tenancy or freehold.

In this country, good luck trying to acquire a surplus or line - to - be - abandoned from a private carrier.

2) The size of the equipment is vastly different. This relates directly to cost. The largest steam engine in Britain is much smaller than what exists in the US. Last time that I checked, the largest operating steam engine in the UK is a 9F. A 9F is about the size of the Russian Decapods that were used by the Frisco. This is considered to be a "huge beastie" in Britain. The Brits are astonished by the size of the locomotives here in the US. In fact, you could gut the tender on a Big Boy, flip it downside up and you would have a nice roomy engine shed for the typical Brit steam locomotive.

3) The heritage railways do not market to railfans (or anoraks) as they know that they have a captive audience. They market to general public as a tourist destination.

The Severn Valley Railway did a marketing study in the mid 90's and found (much to their chagrin) that their biggest competitor was a regional shopping mall.

Don't get into the debate of "museum" vs. "tourist railway". The heritage railways maintain historical accuracy in their operations. You can go to their stations and they are very much just as they appeared in a past time period, be it 1950 or 1890.

Besides, their "crown jewels" are safely tucked away. How many railway preservation operations here in the US can point to an original (not repro) locomotive from 1850?

4) The average Brit revels in and reveres their country's history.

5) The trips on a heritage railway are not a death march. The typical ride lasts about one and one half hours. If you were to spend time at the stations and viewing the museum pieces you might spend a half day or a little more.

6) The trips are between here and there. And at here and there, there are other attractions.

7) The operators and volunteers at the heritage railways are admired and respected by the general public.

And finally;

8) They are well managed. They set priorities and stick to them. Even those that don't agree with the priorities as those realize that the overall goal of a healthy, well run operation will be achieved.

Anyway that's my 2 pence.

PKurilecz



UK Heritage Railways

> How do the Brits do it?

> Let us take a look at a few very fundamental
> differences.

> 1) The heritage railways operating in the UK
> own their trackage, or have a very long term
> lease. (The British terms are freehold and
> tenancy.)

> Do I need to discuss what this means in
> terms of being able to run steam?

> There is a basic fundamental reason as to
> how British heritage railway groups were
> able to obtain their trackage. BR was and is
> a government organization. When Dr. Beeching
> "rationalized" the BR railsystem
> in the 60's, anyone who wanted to take over
> the operation of a surplus line could do so
> by simple application. The line could be
> aquired by tenancy or freehold.

That we managed ...20 miles of completely owned ROW ...in the middle of rebuilding ($$$$$) when done would be able to take 765 and train.

> In this country, good luck trying to acquire
> a surplus or line - to - be - abandoned from
> a private carrier.

> 2) The size of the equipment is vastly
> different. This relates directly to cost.
> The largest steam engine in Britain is much
> smaller than what exists in the US. Last
> time that I checked, the largest operating
> steam engine in the UK is a 9F. A 9F is
> about the size of the Russian Decapods that
> were used by the Frisco. This is considered
> to be a "huge beastie" in Britain.
> The Brits are astonished by the size of the
> locomotives here in the US. In fact, you
> could gut the tender on a Big Boy, flip it
> downside up and you would have a nice roomy
> engine shed for the typical Brit steam
> locomotive.

That is true, however we usually ignore the proper "sized" equipment for an operation and instead go for the largest available ...on a tourist line.

> 3) The heritage railways do not market to
> railfans (or anoraks) as they know that they
> have a captive audience. They market to
> general public as a tourist destination.

> The Severn Valley Railway did a marketing
> study in the mid 90's and found (much to
> their chagrin) that their biggest competitor
> was a regional shopping mall.

Good idea to see where most folks go. Vacation competition for us is Lake Erie in general and Cedar Point in particular ...brings them to the area but no time for a train trip.

> Don't get into the debate of
> "museum" vs. "tourist
> railway". The heritage railways
> maintain historical accuracy in their
> operations. You can go to their stations and
> they are very much just as they appeared in
> a past time period, be it 1950 or 1890.

Big strike out on that one ...got the facilities (1851) but not exploited.

> Besides, their "crown jewels" are
> safely tucked away. How many railway
> preservation operations here in the US can
> point to an original (not repro) locomotive
> from 1850?

And another strike, stored outside with normal junk yard appearance

> 4) The average Brit revels in and reveres
> their country's history.

No cigar on that one either ...very little local history is taught ...however a tie in with local historical societies would not be a bad thing.

> 5) The trips on a heritage railway are not a
> death march. The typical ride lasts about
> one and one half hours. If you were to spend
> time at the stations and viewing the museum
> pieces you might spend a half day or a
> little more.

Three to eight year olds seem to be bored after 45min making the parents want to cut everything short. If the "train" is all there is, off they go.

> 6) The trips are between here and there. And
> at here and there, there are other
> attractions.

We are getting there slowly but the trip still ends up in the woods ... no other attractions yet.

> 7) The operators and volunteers at the
> heritage railways are admired and respected
> by the general public.

There is some awe of the train crew ...but ...nobody realizes the training and work involved. In general the newspapers tend to portray us as kids that never got the train they wanted for Christmas ... like rodney says, no respect.

> And finally;

> 8) They are well managed. They set
> priorities and stick to them. Even those
> that don't agree with the priorities as
> those realize that the overall goal of a
> healthy, well run operation will be
> achieved.

That is unfortunately a matter of opinion and again can only be judged by the final result that sometimes leaves you at a dead end. There are however benchmarks along the way to judge how well you are doing.

> Anyway that's my 2 pence.

> PKurilecz

Thank You .... anyone else care to join in ???

lamontdc@adelphia.net

> How do the Brits do it?

More effectively than we do, but then we have further to go.

British public experience in daily life includes exposure to railways, and, for many, a commute by train. Apart from highly congested metropolitan areas, relatively few Americans travel by rail for business or pleasure.

I am at a loss as to how an appreciation for history is so much more developed over a broader spectrum there than here. Perhaps it is that their country has millenia of recorded history compared to our few hundred years worth. Perhaps living with it every day creates an appreciation subliminally. Perhaps they teach it in ways that make it much less a boring chore than in our schools.

We live in a bountiful universe, but haven't worked out a distribution system yet. Even in these times of economic slowdown, there seems to be no lack of disposable income to spend on entertainment. Anybody bought tickets to a sports event, concert, or professional stage performance lately? Even movies cost more than the average museum admission, and most movies are terrible.

If we can figure out how these more marketable events affect audiences, and supply products that affect people in similar ways, we can have a bigger piece of the pie. I used to think it was a matter of relevance - but that implies a more intellectual, less visceral response from the visitors POV. Any ideas?

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

The other obvious marketing falicy is, that if I put it on an internet sight, the world will come pounding on my door with money in their hands. Maybe on E-Bay, but not in the real world. There are no massive piles of General Public who wake up at dawn and run to their 24/7 internet connection to browse for "STEAM LOCOMOTIVE EXCURSION". If your organization thinks, as some have, that relieing on this type of advertising will fill your trains you have a serious internet/e-business reality problem. You will rapidly realize that in order to make money you have to spend money and in the excursion business other forms of contact will out perform the internet.

rich-young@afbisinc.com

> Three to eight year olds seem to be bored
> after 45min making the parents want to cut
> everything short. If the "train"
> is all there is, off they go.

Oh, yes, the product.

In all this talk about marketing, the product sort of got lost, didn't it?

What ARE you offering? (The "YOU" is generic here, not aimed at anyone in particular.) Two hours of boredom in a coach seat? Or a full experience that captures the attention?

JAC

> Oh, yes, the product.

> In all this talk about marketing, the
> product sort of got lost, didn't it?

> What ARE you offering? (The "YOU"
> is generic here, not aimed at anyone in
> particular.) Two hours of boredom in a coach
> seat? Or a full experience that captures the
> attention?

> JAC

John is right. Both he and I are hard-core steam fans, but we also realize just liking something doesn't mean it will be a great adventure. Neither of us really enjoy going by train all that much cause you can't see and photograph it very well when you are on it.

That said, my riding experiences have been varied over the years, but the ones that stick out in my mind for the average family(yes I have one too) are the ones that provide extra things to do.

An example was in 1999 we went way up to the Alberta Prairie just to see CN 6060. We chased that one, but the next day rode a bit of the #41(former Missippian)to Big Valley. My daughter and I rode while my wife drove to meet us in Big Valley. I was shooting video, so was kinda working! However, my daughter(not hardcore steamfan) loved the show tunes done by the husband and wife team in period garb. That was in one coach. Another open car allowed viewers to get some fresh air and enjoy the sights. There was a bar car, yes serving booze, etc, and in that car was a gal singing as well.
Just outside Big Valley, they had a hold-up and the bandits collected money from inside the train for a local charity. Then there was a big gun battle outside, and the guy from the train shot the robbers, all who arrived on horseback.

Then the train left and a mile later arrived in Big Valley, where they all walked about a block to a town hall where a big hot lunch was waiting for them. I forgot to mention that at one location earlier, there was a couple on a horse-drawn covered wagon for all to see.

The point is, in this 2-4 hour Roundtrip there was a lot of stuff going on aside from the train and steam engine. I think the trip was around $45.00 US including the meal. Booze was cash bar, and probably a cash cow from what I saw. Not advocating the Booze, just passing it on for reference.

In summery, the example above has something for the average Joe tourist, and they sometimes have theme trips. Above someone mentioned the theme trips and I agree with that concept,especially the Santa Trains to get the kids interested, plus they are fun. I wish I could have taken my daughter to a Steam Santa Train, but none were ever running when she was the right age.

Marketing has to be targeted toward the audience you want. Railfans are happy if the train and locos are generally authentic, while the rest of the crowd needs more than a boring train ride for them to folk over big bucks. Not every place can have scenery like Durango, nor a destination like the Grand Canyon, but there are ways to make the most of what you have!
Greg Scholl

PS Have a batch of Railfan, and TRAINS magazines for reasonable sale. If interested email me for details.


Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

Perhaps the thing most easily overlooked is how you as an attraction make a connection with your customers. (Not guests, not visitors, but customers, because that's what they are.)

That is where success or failure is born. Doesn't matter what the product is. Beets, beer, theme parks or tourist railroads. What is the hook that gets the bucks from their pockets to yours? If it works, you know it. If it doesn't, you better be looking for a new one.

Walt Disney had a great concept when working on the planning Disneyland. He called it the "weenie". In that case, it was the castle at the end of the main street that drew the folks down the street.

Just running the train isn't enough any more. You have entire generations who can't relate to the past because they never experienced it. For the more mechanical, think about using a jumper wire to bypass a dead cell in a battery. It's that kind of connection that that's missing. Somehow, the hook needs to get into the mouth of the fish. No bait, no catch.

Just the curiousity or unique kind of attraction isn't enough today.

teamzurg@earthlink.net