2716 Staybolt Sleeve Corrosion

FormD1282 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:07 am **Posts:** 17

wilkinsd wrote:

I'm no expert, but I assume that no matter what your chosen flavor of insulation, if the locomotive sits outside for decades with the insulation in place, it isn't good for the sleeves and caps.

I did not realize how long she sat outside prior to going to irondale and once returning from Fort Wayne. Certainly seems like weather was the culprit as opposed to the kind of insulation used.

Kevin Gilliam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm **Posts:** 292

J.David wrote:

Greetings:

Pink fiberglass (or any other color) aside, FRA MP&E Inspector Peter Domerey said that when he inspected 2716 after it first arrived in Indiana c.1994 it had severe corrosion on many flexible staybolt sleeves. He also described what I would call a typical C&O inner firebox: lots of patches, some quite small encompassing only 6 or 8 staybolts...

It makes one wonder why the Southern used it so little considering how much time they spent working on it. Perhaps one of the guys who worked on it at Irondale could chime in.

Be well & work safe,
J.David

The way I've always had it explained was that 2716 was a casualty of the Southern Steam Program becoming the Norfolk Southern Steam Program. The initial work was fasttracked when the 4501 tube sheet cracked at the start of the 1981 season and put it out of commission. Of course, the 2716's firebox was shot even then, but the theory was to get it running to try and salvage the steam season, and then do more in the offseason. They rushed 2716 to try and have it available for the NRHS Convention in Louisville in August, but best laid plans and such, and it didn't come out until mid October. I think that gave them about 3 weekends of trips in 1981.

Seven months later, the firebox decided to rear its ugly head with lots of cracks, and forced the engine to be sidelined by July '82. Of course, by that point, it was now NS, 611 was out, and Claytor was calling the shots. Old steam schedules with Bistline intros repeatedly mentioned that 2716 would get in the shop as soon as 750 and then 4501 got out. Well, that ended up being late 1984 by the time 4501 got out and the shop space freed up, and by that point, the die was cast to go with 1218 instead. So the 2716 sat.

As they say, best laid plans of mice and men...

Kelly Anderson · **Joined:** Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am **Posts:** 2477

Kelly Anderson · **Joined:** Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am **Posts:** 2477

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

Kelly -

Thanks for pointing that out. Many of these roundhouses (or more likely, enginehouses) were ramshackle structures, but the short lines did keep their locomotives under cover.

Les

QJdriver · **Posted:** Tue May 18, 2021 4:28 pm

If only ALL shortlines kept their steam power under cover, what a wonderful world this would be...

wilkinsd · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2021 3:37 pm

Kelly Anderson wrote:

FormD1282 wrote:

wilkinsd wrote:

I'm no expert, but I assume that no matter what your chosen flavor of insulation, if the locomotive sits outside for decades with the insulation in place, it isn't good for the sleeves and caps.

I did not realize how long she sat outside prior to going to irondale and once returning from Fort Wayne. Certainly seems like weather was the culprit as opposed to the kind of insulation used.

Mainline locomotives seem to be in worse shape corrosion wise than shortline locomotives, at least during the steam era (however long that lasted for a given engine). Think about it. A mainline locomotive only ever gets a roof over its head while being overhauled or receiving running repairs, the mainline roundhouse being much more of a service station than a home. The rest of their time is spent outdoors, either fired up, (in which case moisture from rain isn't as much of an issue) or on a dead line, waiting for the next call to service. Time spent in the park then adds insult to injury.

On the other hand, shortline engines often spent every night of their careers in the roundhouse. EBT is a good example, and the boiler shells of their engines look factory fresh.

This is a very good point.

765nkp · **Joined:** Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:53 pm **Posts:** 34

Contrary to what has been stated in this thread the jacket and insulation on the 2716 was NOT stripped in Ft Wayne. This can be confirmed by two separate posts over on the Trainorders thread about this issue. When Pete Domerey stated the jacket and insulation had to come off to continue operation the following year the board at FWRHS made the decision that time and money would be better spent on the 765 rather than someone else's loco.

FormD1282 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:07 am **Posts:** 17

765nkp wrote:

Contrary to what has been stated in this thread the jacket and insulation on the 2716 was NOT stripped in Ft Wayne. This can be confirmed by two separate posts over on the Trainorders thread about this issue. When Pete Domerey stated the jacket and insulation had to come off to continue operation the following year the board at FWRHS made the decision that time and money would be better spent on the 765 rather than someone else's loco.

That doesn’t appear to be accurate. See images in 0:43 - 0:47 of the clip below. Definitely 2716 in Fort Wayne (New Haven, IN) stripped of her jacketing.

https://youtu.be/2XVPnnvINY4