Hello Does anyone have any pictures of the heavyweight John Greenleaf Whittier in service and any interior/exterior pictures of the 12-1 sleeper Thanks Roger

I have no pictures to add but I eagerly await any that may be posted. Spent a lot of time running through the cars behind 578 and all over that museum.

HW Plan 3410B 12 Sect - 1 DR, as PRR:
Edit: there are four others on RR Picture Archives, apparently it was an IOU Pacific/ SLRG car at one time: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPict ... id=1110037

A fellow named Tom Madden has a wonderful Pullman car database, largely based on construction records. This car, the John Greenleaf Whittier, seems to have had a relatively ordinary existence as such cars go, with no name changes, retaining its plan 3410B configuration for its entire life, and apparently always assigned to the PRR from the time it was new ln January of 1929. It was part of Lot 6220, 16 cars, all named for famous men (most of them writers), and all originally assigned to the PRR. It got ice air conditioning in February of 1934 (the photo above and the others indicate internal ducts) and was sold to "PRR LTP" ("LTP" looks like a common listing for a subsidiary to own former Pullmans). No date is given, but it can be assumed to be the time of the Pullman breakup in 1948. Final retirement seems to be 1967.

I find it fascinating that a pretty standard, common 12-1 survived that long, running on the same road it had originally been assigned, and doing so without significant changes, especially considering how many people were turning their noses up at sections as far back as the 1940s.

And she still survives today.

Mr. Madden's Pullman Project page.

http://www.pullmanproject.com/

"........and was sold to "PRR LTP" ("LTP" looks like a common listing for a subsidiary to own former Pullmans)...."

LTP means "Leased to Pullman" (the Pullman Company).

Thanks for the correction, I now know something I didn't before!

Tom Madden provides this information on his page "Keys to Description" which explains all of the columns in the database.


The cars leased to Pullman were both the lightweight and heavyweight cars in regular service. Cars not taken into railroad ownership remained in a general Pullman pool for extra car service as needed. The transfer of sleeping cars to the railroads was a result of the separation of the Pullman manufacturing and sleeping car operations.

My understanding is that the new operating company was jointly owned by the railroads utilizing the service. The railroads were allowed to take into their ownership a portion of the Pullman heavyweight fleet that reflected their ownership interest in the new operating company.

I believe the cars were SOLD to the railroads, and that was how the new Pullman Sleeping Car Co. was capitalized. To prevent a feeding frenzy with the stronger roads buying all the best cars, the court approved plan only allowed each railroad to buy cars that were operating on their lines as of a certain date, 1/1/45, IIRC. The railroads were then free to operate the cars themselves, if they so desired. But most railroads were not unhappy with the Pullman operation, so they leased the cars back to Pullman, and things continued pretty much as they had before.

Looks like this car ended up with the Iowa Pacific, and is now for sale for $40K. Anyone know if it's been purchased?

Besides the upfront of the cost, I am told there are significant 5-figure "storage charges" being assessed by the IPH railroad, which is also in bankruptcy. Two trustees milking it for all they can get for their respective clients.

IPH was charging it’s own subsidiary for storage? Taking money out of one hand to put it in the other? I thought it was one blanket bankruptcy under IPH and the trustee was appointed to sell off the “leasing” company’s assets. What a mess.

My understanding, as incomplete as it is, is that when something is sold at a sheriff's or bankruptcy sale, the seller - trustee, etc. - gets whatever the auction brings in and can't demand extra "storage fees" or anything else from the buyer. Storage was an issue for the previous bankrupt owning party, not the purchaser, and the estate takes whatever it can get for the item.