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 Post subject: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Danbury, CT
In the wake of the McComb Museum fire and a potentially lengthy list of others over the years, I would encourage everyone to take a good look at their operations/organizations and ask yourselves, “Could we take a hit like that and how bad would it be for us? What have we done to prepare for an incident like that?”

No one is ever really “prepared” for a fire, but there are things you can do to help prevent loss.

Having your local fire department come out to tour your facilities gives them a chance to become familiar with the grounds and any hazards located within. Information like building size (square footage), construction type, location of utility shut-offs, water supply, accessibility, suppression systems, alarm and detection systems, hazmat types and their storage locations, etc go into a pre-incident plan that acts as a “response playbook” that is tailor-made for your occupancy. Every bit of this information helps the FD to get started. The first stage of any incident is called “size-up” and information like this is needed to formulate the response. The quicker they get this information, the quicker they can get to work. Seconds literally make the difference in a fire. Cutting a lock or chain to get into a gate or forcing entry through locked building doors eats up valuable time and forces responders to exert themselves before ever really fighting the fire. Key boxes such as “Knox Boxes” provide a secure and quick means of access to responders. Having your fire department out for a pre-incident planning visit also gives you a chance to identify the areas most valuable to your organization. Yes, this means telling them where “the good stuff is”, but it can help tremendously to save your collection.

I hope this information provides the basis for a productive discussion and opportunities to share ideas that can benefit others.

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1654
Location: Byers, Colorado
OK, I like to put a water hose into the pit when I'm firing up an oil burning steam locomotive. Having a stream of water going will put out any fire before it gets started. An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure in this case, because if you get a fire going under the firebox, and you manage to burn your fuel hose in two, it's all over...

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Danbury, CT
A pre-incident planning visit from your local FD also gives you the opportunity get to know them and what to expect should you need them. Is it a career or volunteer department? How quickly can they respond and what resources can you expect to see?

But, even before you call 911..... What can you do? Do you have fire extinguishers? What kind(s) do you have? Where are they located? Do you have “enough”? Have your personnel been trained in their use?

I know the following sounds like an elementary school fire prevention speech, but do you have an evacuation plan and muster areas for your people? Will you be able to tell the FD if there’s someone inside?

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 1:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 483
Location: Oroville, CA
And what fire suppression system(s) do your buildings have? Old wooden buildings are very susceptible to loss by fire. Many museums are housed in old, historical buildings. I think I would much rather deal with water damaged artifacts than fire damaged ones. I applaud the EBT foundation for adding Fire suppression to some of their facilities. SMART MOVE!!

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 9:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:40 pm
Posts: 395
Location: San Francisco, CA
At the Western Railway Museum we are a long way out of town; we have sprinklers in Car Barn #3 fed from a 200,000 gallon tank. Three times we have used it to refill the tanks of fire trucks fighting wild fires on other nearby properties. Our next project is more hydrants on the grounds and another Car Barn with sprinklers.

Ted Miles, Western Railway Museum


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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 456
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
Our house in Massachusetts burned down last October. It had been built in 1865 as a simple summer home (no heat, insulation, etc.) and had been shingled to make it "prettier" I suppose. The fire sprang from the wood stove where the chimney met the side of the house, and quickly ran up the shingles into the roof. Once up there it was not extinguishable. I was home alone and managed to get our two indoor cats out and then called 911. The fire department took forever to get there- maybe 15- 20 minutes, by which time the house and most of its contents were destroyed.
Some lessons: A fire in an old wood structure spreads shockingly quickly and becomes a raging dangerous furnace. No. 1 priority should be to spread the alarm and get everyone out and accounted for right now! "Accounted for" is important. Have someone else call 911 after they are safely out. Don't bother trying to save anything as it is now too late for that. You can dig through the remains later.
Luckily we had important papers stored in a heavy wood filing cabinet so they were saved. Pretty much everything else was gone. I had what I was wearing: shorts a tee shirt and penny loafers. Our neighbors gave us some clothes.
I would imagine that a car barn with wood parts, grease etc laying around would be potentially fatally dangerous to anybody caught inside. Plan and prepare now, it can't wait. Ned


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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1184
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Old Pueblo Trolley is as well protected as possible. Our shop building is protected by a sprinkler system and the fire department is less than five minutes away. Our building is all steel and we make every effort to keep the building clean. Flammable items are stored in fireproof lockers.

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2055
Location: Southern California
Mount Royal wrote:
A pre-incident planning visit from your local FD also gives you the opportunity get to know them and what to expect should you need them. Is it a career or volunteer department? How quickly can they respond and what resources can you expect to see?

But, even before you call 911..... What can you do? Do you have fire extinguishers? What kind(s) do you have? Where are they located? Do you have “enough”? Have your personnel been trained in their use?

I know the following sounds like an elementary school fire prevention speech, but do you have an evacuation plan and muster areas for your people? Will you be able to tell the FD if there’s someone inside?
These are all part of planing for emergency response. You probably have seen this at work, take it to your museum.

Yes, have your local emergency responders visit you location before the need. Show then the access points, your buildings and their uses. Also don't be afraid to have your insurance company inspector/loss control person come and review your situation.

If you have multiple buildings, are you keeping the fire lanes clear of parked vehicles and restoration supplies.

When I worked for a scaffold supply company we had a City fire inspector show up and looked us over. In the office he commented about having a proper number of fire extinguishers. But said they were the wrong kind for a waste basket fire--the water kind was best as it would not blow the burning paper around the office.

Have a response plan, not just for fire, but also for other events -- flood, wind storm, etc. How do you handle an on-site (or off-site) injury? Who calls 911? How do you notify the front office or organization officers? Who are the people authorized to speak to the news media?

Who are the service providers that you can call on for water damage recovery? Other needs?

Share the call/phone number/information lists of people and vendors at multiple sites -- you don't want the one copy to burn in the fire.

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:53 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Think of escape routes as well.
I won't say where but I once saw a building on the grounds of a museum that had one entrance, a normal sized door at the front. There was a lot of wood and such near that door, too, and if a fire started it wouldn't be good for anyone in there as the only door and window were in the same 20 linear feet.
I'd expect that if a fire started there in that corner and blocked off the door and window, expect a 100% fatality rate for anyone inside if fire fighters couldn't get there immediately.

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:16 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Danbury, CT
So..... not a whole lot of discussion here. It’s kind of alarming (pun intended). Thanks to those who have contributed thus far.

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:32 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 456
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
p51 wrote:
Think of escape routes as well.
I won't say where but I once saw a building on the grounds of a museum that had one entrance, a normal sized door at the front. There was a lot of wood and such near that door, too, and if a fire started it wouldn't be good for anyone in there as the only door and window were in the same 20 linear feet.
I'd expect that if a fire started there in that corner and blocked off the door and window, expect a 100% fatality rate for anyone inside if fire fighters couldn't get there immediately.


Absolutely. You simply cannot get around a fire no matter how fast you run. It literally becomes a huge blowtorch. The fire in our house was hot enough to have melted some of our metal decorations and accessories - the smell afterwards was awful.


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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:48 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
nedsn3 wrote:
the smell afterwards was awful.
You can't imagine how bad it is when it's someone and not something.
Don't ask how I know...

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2463
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
Mount Royal wrote:
So..... not a whole lot of discussion here. It’s kind of alarming (pun intended). Thanks to those who have contributed thus far.


National Capital Trolley Museum is fully sprinklered with a dry pipe system and smoke detection alarm system. There is also a Knox box on the property. I do not recall a recent fam tour with the fire department.

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:56 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:22 pm
Posts: 484
This article might be of interest if your museum has a lot of wooden or other non-metal artifacts:
https://www.theintelligencer.net/news/c ... n-systems/

I second the idea of planning for other common threats in your area. Think of the big past events that have hit the neighborhood and how your museum would have handled them, then add a substantial “worse than that” margin, including the unlikely but possible. For instance, “what if there’s a medical emergency and the crossing is blocked?” should include “...and so is the one four blocks west.” History is full of tragedies that were worse because two bad things happened at once (San Francisco 1906 earthquake, which cut off the water supply at the same time it dumped over cookstoves and set fires.)

When you have the fire department come by, either have them bring their biggest engine or bring the measurements. Like most vehicles, fire trucks have gotten bigger over the past few years, so make sure your gates are wide enough and not blocked by overhead items. In a nearby town, there’s an underpass with a very low clearance (nine feet or so) a block from the fire station. The old fire trucks could duck under, but newer ones have to go around.

Remember small, routine bits of maintenance. If your windows will open, open and close them now and then to make sure they’d still work if a windstorm wrecked your doors. If flood water can cut off a road, or a derailment could block the way, can you get out by another route? If there’s a seldom-used back gate, you might want to unlock and lock so it would work (and you’ll also know the keys are present and intact.) If you have culverts on your property, does anyone check for blockages after a hard rain so water from the next one won’t back up? How about that little-used dirt road around back—could it use some gravel in the potholes?

Does staff log in and out so you know who is on the property if there’s an emergency? If you’re working alone, even if it’s a very safe task, tell somebody where you’ll be and have a way to call for help. Mine-style traceable tags aren’t vital, but they’re nice if you can get them (if only because they save a lot of time when there’s an important visitor or call.) Security cameras can also help if there’s bad stuff going on, because you’ll be able to see where that tour group is or whether all three of your people are out of the damaged building.

Finally, river flooding and hurricanes are about the only emergencies with a long enough lead time that you have time to move items. If your area is prone to those, you might want to ask which people will be directly affected and which won’t. If you can have the high and dry crew take care of moving the paper artifacts or getting equipment onto safe tracks, those who live in harm’s way can be home taking care of business. It goes without saying that you also need to learn evacuation routes, including secondary roads in case of jammed freeways. One of the wisest moves during Katrina was the captain of the Natchez, who had the crew bring their families, pets and belonging aboard and steamed upriver to hide out behind an island. Consider that if you have enough warning, you might be able to stuff some boxcars and get out of Dodge.

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 Post subject: Re: FIRE!- How well is your organization protected?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:44 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Danbury, CT
Good info, Becky. Thanks for sharing!

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