Mask wearing on a tourist line?

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:45 am

mldeets wrote:

My reading is the Order is still in place. The FRA statement only:

Quote:

... explains how FRA will exercise its discretion when enforcing...

.
Interpretations will vary..............mld

This reads to this skeptical libertarian as:

"It doesn't matter what the law ACTUALLY says; FRA enforcement officials will say whatever the hell they want and you will obey or be heavily fined."

Now, in MY experience FRA officials are NOT the stereotypes of "Sheriff Buford T. Justice" or "Sheriff Lobo" or the "Staasi/Gestapo"............. but the opportunity for abuse is plainly there, assuming these transcriptions are at all accurate.

Jim Vaitkunas · **Posted:** Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:59 pm

Back on page 1 of this thread (!!!), Steve Heister's posting cites two specifically worded sentences that are unequivocal in stating that the alleged TSA rule applies to tourist railroads and trolley museums. I started with the President's Executive order and worked my way down, and I can't find the words that Steve cites anywhere. They maybe be burried in the multiple footnotes of the TSA directives and CDC's guidance, I don't know.

If anyone can give me the source of the quotes, please PM me.

Thanks!

jayrod · **Posted:** Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:01 pm

Jim - I did not find specific language that includes us, text or footnotes. However, I also did not find specific language that excludes us which is usually how the FRA handles us.

Sandy - Agreed. I haven’t met an FRA inspector (yet) that was anything but helpful. But they may be out there….

Jim Vaitkunas · **Posted:** Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:09 pm

Jim Vaitkunas wrote:

If anyone can give me the source of the quotes, please PM me.

Ed Lecuyer of the WWE&F Rwy Museum answered my question. Here's an extract of his reply pertaining to the applicability of the TSA directive.
"...The TSA Security Directive (currently in-effect) is: https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files ... 21-01a.pdf
The APPLICABILTY section refers to: "Each owner/operator identified in 49 CFR 1582.1" which is defined at:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/1582.1 to be:
"[...] Each tourist, scenic, historic, and excursion rail owner/operator, whether operating on or off the general railroad system of transportation."...

Thanks!

jayrod · **Posted:** Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:54 pm

Thank you for that.

Fixed TSA link: https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/sd-1582-84-21-01a.pdf

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:25 pm

jayrod wrote:

Sandy - Agreed. I haven’t met an FRA inspector (yet) that was anything but helpful. But they may be out there….

MOST law enforcement--civil and railroad/transit--are reasonable and intelligent.

Then you get the bozos that tell you "Taking pictures of trains is illegal--haven't you heard of 9-11?!?"
Some empowered by the Feds, no less.

Is your outfit ready to survive the shutdown while your litigation for false arrest/citation takes two or three years to get heard in court?

Bartman-TN · **Joined:** Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm **Posts:** 332

And now the question is how open is open?
Waist-high with roof is open?
All open windows is open?
Folding chair on a flat car I would assume is open (yes, its been done).

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:12 am

Bartman-TN wrote:

And now the question is how open is open?
Waist-high with roof is open?
All open windows is open?
Folding chair on a flat car I would assume is open (yes, its been done).

Half-roofed open flat car with ribs-high fence railing--as on the Verde Canyon RR for eagle-spotting in the canyon?
Open vestibules that give insurers cardiac arrest?

Try to "cover all the bases," and we'll come up with new bases.

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1086

Two CNBC news articles from today, June 25, 2021:

Quote:

The World Health Organization on Friday urged fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks, social distance and practice other Covid-19 pandemic safety measures as the highly contagious delta variant spreads rapidly across the globe.

"People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses. They still need to protect themselves," Dr. Mariangela Simao, WHO assistant director-general for access to medicines and health products, said during a news briefing from the agency's Geneva headquarters.

"Vaccine alone won't stop community transmission," Simao added. "People need to continue to use masks consistently, be in ventilated spaces, hand hygiene ... the physical distance, avoid crowding. This still continues to be extremely important, even if you're vaccinated when you have a community transmission ongoing."

The health organization's comments come as some countries, including the United States, have largely done away with masks and pandemic-related restrictions as the Covid vaccines have helped drive down the number of new infections and deaths.

The number of new infections in the U.S. has held steady over the last week at an average of 11,659 new cases per day, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

Link to full article:
WHO urges fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks as delta Covid variant spreads

And:

Quote:

More than 4,100 people have been hospitalized or died with Covid-19 in the U.S. even though they've been fully vaccinated, according to new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

So far, at least 750 fully vaccinated people have died after contracting Covid, but the CDC noted that 142 of those fatalities were asymptomatic or unrelated to Covid-19, according to data as of Monday that was released Friday.

The CDC received 3,907 reports of people who have been hospitalized with breakthrough Covid infections, despite being fully vaccinated. Of those, more than 1,000 of those patients were asymptomatic or their hospitalizations weren't related to Covid-19, the CDC said.

"To be expected," Dr. Paul Offit, a top advisor to the Food and Drug Administration on children's vaccines told CNBC. "The vaccines aren't 100% effective, even against severe disease. Very small percentage of the 600,000 deaths."

Link to full article:
CDC says roughly 4,100 people have been hospitalized or died with Covid breakthrough infections after vaccination

co614 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:13 pm

Well I guess with the new super variant that has figured out how to beat the vaccine we're headed back to square one??

Probably smart to get me a world class respirator as the new variant will figure out how to get through an ordinary mask.

Just when we thought it was in the rear view mirror.

Oh well, it is what it is.

Ross Rowland

Rick Rowlands · **Posted:** Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:56 am

Covid is still in the rearview mirror. New cases are down to 10,000 per day from a high of 295,000 per day. Look at the article Chris Webster posted. They had to pump up the numbers to make them look scarier. 750 vaccinated people died after contracting covid, but 142 were unrelated to covid. So shouldn't the number be 608 to be a useful metric? The 750 number is misleading and absolutely useless.

And then this: "The CDC received 3,907 reports of people who have been hospitalized with breakthrough Covid infections, despite being fully vaccinated. Of those, more than 1,000 of those patients were asymptomatic or their hospitalizations weren't related to Covid-19, the CDC said." OK so please tell me how someone can be hospitalized with a covid infection if they are asymptomatic? If there are no symptoms, what covid symptom put them in the hospital? And we need to reduce that 3,907 by 1,000 at least to get a more accurate number. So at most it is 2,907 but more likely 2,500 or so. We all were told that the vaccines are 90% effective so these numbers are well within that margin.

The numbers are low enough now, and the economic and societal damage from covid so great, that we all need to assume a bit of risk and get things back to normal asap. I don't know about your parts of the country, but around northeast Ohio all the covid signs are gone, masks are mostly gone and we have moved on. Yes I know we must still follow the TSA's rules. This isn't about that. This is about everyone getting out of the covid mentality, which is going to be the hardest part as it is difficult for many people to properly judge relative risks.

choodude · **Joined:** Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am **Posts:** 327

From what I can parse out of that WHO guidance, they are asking me to wear a mask to protect those that have chosen not to vaccinate.

Now in fairness, health authorities are supposed to try and save as many lives as possible without making a value judgment. I, on the other hand, don't have that value judgment limitation.

Suddenly I find non vaccinated folks haranguing me that only sheeple wear masks have a valid argument. I chose to not be woke and interfere with their opportunity to join the one percent club.

Brian

Edit:

Perhaps I should make it clear that I don't have the slightest problem with wearing a mask in the transportation vehicle situation, including any tourist line of any type.

One probably doesn't want to hear this, but having worked on the MW & Construction side of life and needing REAL PPE to survive to retirement, hearing that a piece of fabric is too much for you to breathe through . . . Ummm . . .no, I had better continue with my Manhattan !! YAY!!!

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1799

choodude wrote:

From what I can parse out of that WHO guidance, they are asking me to wear a mask to protect those that have chosen not to vaccinate.

Now in fairness, health authorities are supposed to try and save as many lives as possible without making a value judgment. I, on the other hand, don't have that value judgment limitation.

Suddenly I find non vaccinated folks haranguing me that only sheeple wear masks have a valid argument. I chose to not be woke and interfere with their opportunity to join the one percent club.

Brian

Since this is about tourist / historic railway operations I believe you are being asked to wear a mask to help keep the spread down period. This includes children who can’t have the vaccine yet, people who have been advised not to take the vaccine because of other health conditions, and those who are older and are more likely to have an issue with covid even after they have been vaccinated.

Seems like the best thing to do for everyone involved.

Dave · **Posted:** Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:41 am

Not entirely in the rear view mirror - sometimes what's there speeds up and passes us. Sydney, NSW, Australia, has reinstated preventive measures as a result of numbers of new cases rising after removal of restrictions. It wasn't just variants, it was behavioral changes pushing us backwards. It's not difficult for me to see such things happening here as well.
Sheeple are those wearing masks? No, the people wearing masks in appropriate settings are the rational ones. The sheeple are those worrying about meaningless things like how they feel rather than legitimate facts and blindly following bloviating orange gasbags who have no concept of reality apart from how to distort it to best serve their own egos and listening to people asking them to follow their lead or else become sheeple..... isn't blindly following the definition of sheeple? Be situationally aware and take rationally sensible measures based on what you find yourself around. If it doesn't help in every case at least it won't hurt.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:27 pm

Dave wrote:

Sheeple are those wearing masks? No, the people wearing masks in appropriate settings are the rational ones. The sheeple are those worrying about meaningless things like how they feel rather than legitimate facts and blindly following bloviating orange gasbags who have no concept of reality apart from how to distort it to best serve their own egos and listening to people asking them to follow their lead or else become sheeple..... isn't blindly following the definition of sheeple?

In all fairness, there are "sheeple" (as we are loosely defining it to fit our personal biases) all over the political and COVID-political spectrum--from the bizarre Trump-flag-wavers to the BLM "movement" and the Orwellianly-misnamed "antifa" trying to impose their own brand of "Fascism," from people who vote for a candidate because "she/he's one of 'us'!" (female, Black, Christian, gay, Catholic, whatever) to those unquestioningly following whatever diktats spew out of the mouths of Congress/an ayatollah/Oprah/a sports player.............