On SEPTA's CHW (PRR Chestnut Hill Br.), in steam days, K4's weren't allowed past Allen Lane to Chestnut Hill. The Ft. Washington Branch was OK but the Cresheim Creek Bridge couldn't take the weight. There's a new bridge now and the Ft. Washington Branch is gone.

Will 1361 have I-ETMS? How about East Strasburg to Harrisburg?

Phil Mulligan

With a reminder to all that I was adamantly told "we'll never see steam on the Horse Shoe Curve again!!!" by Conrail officials who were also 100% supportive of the concept.............

............. what you've suggested is an even LONGER shot.

Why is that? We’ve seen steam on SEPTA within the last two years.

The logistics of getting 1361 to Philadelphia are certainly a challenge, but it isn’t an issue of SEPTA being unfriendly to steam (especially based off of some of the conversations I’ve had with Leslie Richards)

1361 doesn’t even need to run into 30th on a CHW run. It can just go from CHW to North Philly and back. No interference with Amtrak, no fuss.

The Media/Elwyn line is now entirely segregated from Amtrak, so any excursions from West Chester would be allowed into 30th upper.

and NS is done with steam, 611 will never run again, a Big Boy will never be restored,

Maybe that long-awaited (since 1988) return to the NY & LB can also occur someday.

John

Well NS does appear to be pretty "done" with steam at the moment.

Why do you think 4501 is captive to TVRM? 4501 was restored to run like 2 weekends on NS before the program was canned.

611 is only able to run at Strasburg, 765 is mostly back to doing the Cuyahoga valley trips.

The best bet is somewhere like Strasburg, the R&N, Cuyahoga valley etc as a place to see 1361 run. Maybe even steamtown. who knows. But unless NS has a change of heart don't expect to see it take to the main other than a diesel led positioning move.

Maybe Mr. Moorman being so heavily involved with this project would help sway NS into getting 1361 out on the mainline.

John

If we've learned one thing about mainline steam in the last 20 years or so it is that no one can predict the future.

Class 1 CEO's come and go and corporate policies ( Amtrak) are forever changing.

Bottom line here is we now can say with confidence that the 1361 will be restored to mainline capable RELIABLE running condition.

Where it will be able to perform will be addressed when she's ready to dance.

All things in their proper time.

Ross Rowland

Is this part of your "keep an eye on Philadelphia" trend for mainline steam around Philly - that you posted back in April? All has been quiet on that front... :/

Nope, I was just theorizing about where 1361 could go once restored. Wasn’t related to what I had mentioned before.

I know to a lot of people, suggesting places like this may be construed as hopeless fantasizing, but answering where 1361 will run is an important question if it’s being restored to… well, run.

Any current difficulties that exist now aren’t guaranteed to exist forever. These past few years have proved that what we see as “impossible” truly isn’t by any realm of imagination. Much that has been deemed as “impossible” by so many in the past few years especially has been achieved, and I think I speak for everyone in saying that rail preservation is certainly doing as well at the moment in correcting old wrongs with past projects, or even creating new experiences with new pieces in different locations.

So as for the Class 1’s like NS being hesitant with steam at the moment, or Amtrak having their specific policies, I wouldn’t be so negative on that front. It’s almost a guarantee that things can and will change in the future, for better or for worse. And even with the Class 1’s being hesitant in operating it, there’s a plethora of lines it could run on. Strasburg, the Nittany and Bald Eagle, Northern Central, Everett, or even Steamtown or the RBMN.

1361 will be almost perfect for tourist operation when fully fixed up. Large enough to haul most trains, small enough to fit on any line with few exceptions, and a crowd pleaser comparable to the likes of a 611 or a 765. Quite comparable with the Flying Scotsman if there was a perfect locomotive to compare it to in modern times. With the people behind the 1361’s restoration as experienced and respected in the industry as they are, I’d argue that the question of “where will it run” should be replaced by “When will it run here”. In my opinion, there will be several organizations in the state of Pennsylvania, and elsewhere that would be eager to host 1361, some without much history of steam operation.

I 100% agree. I'm not big on PRR steam, but I must concur that the pre-war configuration for the K-4s looks much better than their post-war setup. It would be really nice to see #1361 brought back to look that way again.

Seems to me the game for mainline steam is to get your locomotive up and running, keep it running, have qualified, professional crews and wait for the next steam friendly CEO, figuring the window is 3-5 years long, perhaps every 10-20 years. And have some basic plans.

In the meantime, you run when and where you can to keep everyone current and help with the $$$.

Bob

30th St. Phila. was mentioned. 30th St. Lower Level was not built for steam operation; the station building is directly above the tracks.

After Broad St. Station closed, PRSL trains originated at 30th St. Departing train was spotted at the North end of the lower level with the K4 (or RDG G-3) outside. Returning trains used the upper level which was built for steam with a Bush trainshed which was open above where the stack was.

SEPTA has enclosed the upper level trainshed.

Next issue is PTC. NS or Amtrak West of Fraser is I-ETMS. SEPTA and rest of Amtrak is ACSES. Interestingly, 1361 is one of the K4's that had Cab Signals and Speed Control* in the 1950's.

Phil Mulligan

* per 4/1/53 MP 229. Speed Control compared engine speed with speed authorized by Cab Signal. If overspeed, cab whistle sounded. If engineer did not make a timely brake application, he got a penalty brake application. On a steam engine, throttle was not automatically closed.

If I recall correctly, the last time Reading 2102 had an excursion into Philly, it used lower level for boarding (like you said, the engine was spotted outside on the north end).

When Strasburg did the 7002/1223 doubleheader into town in the late 80s, they used the upper level. Not sure if SEPTA had yet enclosed the portion of the roof over the tracks at that time.

Part of the fun (in my opinion) is being able to see the locomotive up close when stopped which would be challenging out of the lower level; even the upper level as they are high platformed.



I'm also curious where the "keep an eye of Philadelphia" comment originated and when we will hear news, if any, about that...